AIBU re time off for miscarriage?

[mortifiedmama]

Honestly don't know if I am being unreasonable. How long do you think is reasonable for time off for a miscarriage at 8 weeks, no complications and a naturally conceived pregnancy (woman in question has a DS3 and the misccariage pregnancy, both conceived within 3 months of trying).

I'm asking as my friend (the person in question) has taken 10 weeks off. She's got a disciplinary at work re a few issues, including absence and performance and I hadn't realised she'd had that long off for the mc (she's had other absences too, and we don't work together).

From my knowledge of others experiences- colleagues, family and friends, and myself, it seems like a long time but wondered what others felt?

It's only in the world of Mumsnet that people criticise others for having an opinion about almost anything! The tedious 'what's it got to do with you' non-argument. FFS!

In real life, this kind of question amongst women chatting would not bat an eyelid.

Most would say yes, 10 weeks for a very early miscarriage was unreasonable. The emotional recovery may well take more than 10 weeks, but that doesn't mean someone should stay off work for that length of time.

The way you talk about her doesn't sound like you really think of her as a friend tbh. Which may well be for good reasons. But I'd draw back from her, it is of course frustrating to be asked to offer advice/support to someone you don't really like or respect very much.

I had a MC at 7 weeks 3 years ago, I took an afternoon off (when it was actually happening and spent that at the hospital) and the next day off as the whole office were being taken 3 hours away by coach for the Christmas party and I had to have a blood test back at the hospital. It happened about 3 days before Christmas, so I had the Christmas period off anyway so although I was in on Christmas eve I had a bit of time to re-group. I think a week would be acceptable, but 10 weeks is a lot!

@RemyRelax so if your friend comes to you to ask advice about the situation I have detailed above, would you just have said you refuse to comment? Or would you, as I have done, told her of your own experience and those of others you know, advised her to seek support re the employment issues (and where to get that support), suggested that despite her refusal to acknowledge otherwise may be experiencing some MH issues in relation to it and might benefit from support around that? Because if you 'd have refused to comment, then I think you're a pretty crap friend!

Namestheyareachangin I think the fact she is so openly scathing of mental health issues does colour my view of her. But it also makes me quite concerned for her.

I've been a line manager for 20 yrs and sickness absence is one of the easiest and hardest situations to manage. It's hard because the work still needs doing by someone. It's easy because you should treat everyone the same, apply company policy the same, be empathetic and sympathetic.

Regardless of reason for absence.

When the number of days/instances of absence breaches company policy, everyone is treated the same. If their absence is related to ongoing issues/disability etc, there's a policy for that.

So your friend needing 10 wks off for a mc should be treated the same as someone who took time off for the death of their partner or the death of their dog. I've dealt with all 3. And absence for a pet rat that was sick.

It's not up to anyone else to judge what is 'valid' or not. Sickness absence policies exist because someone needs to be in work and doing the job. If your friend can't be in work often enough then she will be disciplined accordingly.

She's either depressed - in which case her health (mental) is still affected - or she is unhappy at work and using the miscarriage as an excuse to take time off. Maybe a bit of both.

10 weeks is a really long time for a 8 week pregnancy I would take maximum a week at 8 weeks and 2 weeks after 16+ weeks 10 weeks sounds like she is just trying to milk it and if I was her employer I would be letting her go

When I had a miscarriage at eight weeks, I took one day off. I think I told work it was food poisoning - I didn't want them to know I was pregnant.

Do you know why she is taking 10 weeks off?

@mortifiedmama
Well she definitely needs more supportive and less judgmental friends.

I had two missed miscarriages last year, discovered at 11&12 weeks. I required a hospital stay the first time because I haemorrhaged following medical management then needed emergency surgery/blood transfusion to save my life. I was off work for a total of two weeks that time. It totally flawed me going back, I told people at work I’d just had ‘minor surgery’ and that it was no big deal. Inside I was absolutely heartbroken and crushed, I really struggled and looking back wish I’d taken a lot more time off.

The second time I opted for the surgery so was in and out of hospital in a few hours. I only took three days off work and when I returned wanted to pretend it hadn’t happened. I was actually grateful to be back at work that time to take my mind off things.

I teach so it’s generally frowned upon to even have one day off. Last year was the first time I’d taken so much time off and I felt extremely guilty on my students. However I’m currently on maternity leave and don’t have the same guilt whatsoever. I needed the time off to heal physically and emotionally after the first miscarriage last year and wish I’d had the balls to request it.

Miscarriages affect everyone differently and each miscarriage can affect the same person differently too. You don’t know whether this was your colleagues first or whether it was physically complicated. I would give her a break personally, it’s not an easy thing to experience.

It sounds to me like she's really struggling with her mental health and really struggling to accept that.

I've been in that position. I was abused by my parents for showing emotions as a child and young adult - that meant when I had mh issues I seriously struggled to accept them to the point of refusing any diagnosis at all to do with mh. I was signed off for my other conditions and would insist on that everytime and get very distressed if the dr suggested it was mh. For a very long time I was prejudiced against mh issues in all forms and, though I have my own issues I struggle with, I still can find myself slipping into that way of thinking (I'm ashamed to admit that).

I'm still extremely hard on myself, less so on others, but I find it hard to understand and, though I now recognise it, it's still a problem. I had a social worker tell me once I was bullying myself and abusing myself by being so abusive towards me for having mh issues after they asked me what I thought of my mh issues.

I'm not saying this was her experience but her behaviour around asking for longer off and trying to get dr notes changed is exactly what I did (though it wasn't mc in my case).

I'm a midwife and have looked after a number of women having late miscarriages at 12-24 weeks. (Before about 12 weeks they're seen in gynae, not in maternity, but that's a debate for a different thread.) Standard practice is to sign them off for 4 weeks initially but encourage them to go to the GP if they feel they need more time off. The reasoning is that some women will want to be back to their normal lives in 4 weeks or less, but those who need to be off for longer do need to be checking in with someone to assess their need for extra support. Her GP's reluctance to sign her off for 10 weeks at one go isn't necessarily because it's "not a good enough reason" to be off for that long but because her needing to be off that long indicates that she needs a little extra support, and signing her off for 1 week at a time forces her to check in with the GP regularly. Otherwise it's too easy to sit at home for 10 weeks not seeing anyone, not eating, not showering, and by the time anyone realises how far you've spiralled it's out of control.
Its nobody's business but hers and the HCPs looking after her how much time she needed to grieve. I hope she has other friends who are more supportive than you, OP.

I've no experience of MC but i know people who have who have found it worsened their mh.

I would like to think my friends wouldn't start threads like this about me.

I'm just going to say this, doctors don't sign people off for fun or lightly. Contrary to this horrid opinion you can turn up and say "I don't fancy work, note please".

Considering that the GP is writing a different reason on the notes - the last few weeks have had notes for stress, not miscarriage - and that your friend has to have weekly appointments for the notes because the GP is not happy to sign her off for longer, would indicate that there is something else going on here.

Whether the stress is due to the miscarriage is hard to tell - I'd be inclined to say it's not simply because of the past absence issues. She may well have some mental health issues and the miscarriage may have made them worse. Unfortunately, I don't think her bid to make the GP change the notes is going to work and it is unlikely to help with the disciplinary (especially if she is going in there claiming that the notes are wrong!).

If she is a member of a union then you could strongly advise her to contact them ASAP. I don't think she's going to do herself any favours in the meeting by the sound of it.

Poor work performance, regular absences from work and being cross with your GP for signing you off with stress for four of your 10 weeks off after a miscarriage indicates a likely mental health issue to me!!! It seems a bit silly to argue with both your employer and your GP over why you are not very reliable at work and why you need 10 weeks off after a miscarriage.

Well, call me a cynic, but I'd say she's extending the miscarriage absence to avoid being in work due to her performance issues there.

I'm just going to say this, doctors don't sign people off for fun or lightly
But it sounds as if this GP was very reluctant to sign her off for the latest 6 week period.

MC started < Thursday, admitted Friday night, D&C Saturday morning & back at work Monday.

Well she definitely needs more supportive and less judgmental friends.

Depends if she's taking the piss or not. Most people would be very supportive of a miscarriage, but there are clearly different issues here. If she has form for being flaky or unreliable at work, then she may have ruffled feathers there and people's sympathies are running thin.

ihatebikerides I like when people can use their brain to see that there are issues beyond the snapshot in the OP which prevents the OP from being a million pages long!

I miscarried at 12 weeks and basically went straight back to work after the hospital stay etc. My last miscarriage was at 5 weeks and fell during a weeks annual leave. So again, straight back to work. You're colleague may have deeper issues though. I'm sure there are a minority of women who abuse the leniency surrounding work and pregnancy, but hopefully she isn't one of them.

I took a week and a half after a 12 wk MC, mostly to wait for the bleeding to abate and for further scans etc. My boss was pretty sympathetic but I think raised an eyebrow at the length of time taken... until his princess wife had one about a month later and was off for weeks.

It's horses for courses but, albeit we don't know what's going on in your friend's head, I'd say ten weeks is excessive.

I took three weeks off the first time and five weeks off the second time. I went back to work when people could ask me how I was and I could say I was fine, without crying. There are various reasons why that took three weeks and five weeks respectively.

If she's still off after 10 weeks it's not because of the miscarriage it's her feelings or mental health related to it the Drs right to have not signed her off in relation to that anymore assuming there's been no complications it's not longer a "medical" reason for absence. Does sound like she's focussing her attention in wrong places