to think that its logical to think that "strong" women are MORE likely to be victims of abuse?

[PyongyangKipperbang]

I have "come out" as a victim of domestic abuse. Everyone knows we split up, but now I have found myself able to talk about why.

The amount of shock I have had, comments such as "But are you ballsy/strong/independent!", amazement that I have put up with it.....but surely if a man is threatened or hates women he is more likely to assault an apparently strong woman? She is more likely to stand her ground, more likely to argue back, less likely to walk on eggshells, more "in need" of taking down a peg and being shown her place?

Ime, women haters are attracted to apparently strong and independent women but then seem to need to take them down.

Please dont think that I am saying that only women like me are victims, women haters hate all women and will attack without prejudice, but its unfair to assume that a woman who doesnt take any shit should not "allow" herself to be a victim of abuse? I almost feel that people are thinking "Well she acts all proud and strong but she stayed with him for years...." as if they are, not blaming me for what happened, but blaming me that it went on so long.

It is my belief that it is the controlling abusive man who is the inherently 'weak' one, who seeks to tie a woman to him at all costs, the type of woman he seeks can be many, as I've already said and not necessarily sought for her power and strength, but also for her nurturing and many other perceived facets.

It is a massive assumption to make that any disagreeing with your opinion have internalised, for, reasons, and therefore you are right.

Interestingly (to me anyway) it was the stress and dynamics of the relationship changing due to a child that I think "awoke" the abuser in my exH

Prior to pregnancy we were fine. After birth - we were very much not fine.

He's gone on to get into a relationship with someone else. I am a simply a crazy ex. Everything I warned her of has been easily explained by him and forgiven, after all he's acknowledged to her that he wasn't always right in how he acted. And all she can see is me being difficult because I have boundaries in place he cannot cross anymore. I actually suspect that unless she falls pregnant... they might well be fine. I certainly was up till then.

He is of course an abuser, but specific circumstances enabled him to be one. He is also a master manipulator who extracts sympathy and admiration from most he comes into contact with. If I met him in my working life or social life now - I'd probably just think "aww a nice guy!"

I am not trying to discredit you but an abuser apologizing and feeling remorse is part of the script. It's standard and most abusers do it. That doesn't make him some sort of rare anomaly. It's unfortunately more likely that you didn't flag his emotional abuse as a problem because you learned in childhood that love comes with abuse or neglect.

In my head an abusive relationship was where it happened constantly.

Exactly. Maybe your parents were good and "bad" and you learned that love means ignoring the "bad". So you ignored the "bad" with your DH.

It's called "revictimization".

Basically a victim of childhood abuse massively increases the likelihood adult victims being "revictimized".

• World Health Org study:

Again, 1 in 20 of women with no history of maltreatment were victims of adult domestic violence, compared to 1 in 10 of those who had experienced one type of abuse in childhood and 1 in 3 of those who had experienced physical, sexual and emotional abuse. In addition, a recent British study of 1207 women attending primary care services (22) showed a significant co-occurrence of sexual and physical abuse in both childhood and adulthood. The chances of being a victim of such abuse as an adult were significantly higher in those women who had experienced childhood victimization.

www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/98783/E90619.pdf

Sadly adult trauma also has a similar effect. Being raped as an adult hugely increases your chances of being raped again. DV makes further DV much more likely.

www.girlsglobe.org/2015/08/04/the-repetition-compulsion-why-rape-victims-are-more-likely-to-be-assaulted-again/

It's why programmes like the Freedom Programme are so important. You have to learn protective techniques otherwise meeting another abuser is sooo much more likely.

Interestingly (to me anyway) it was the stress and dynamics of the relationship changing due to a child that I think "awoke" the abuser in my exH

Prior to pregnancy we were fine. After birth - we were very much not fine.

This is scarily wrong. Abuse is always very likely to start after pregnancy. Your ex is likely a serial abuser and abused before you and will abuse after. You didn't awake anything in him and your relationship WASN'T FINE before you had a child.

PLEASE do the work to understand the emotional abuse and other forms of subtle control that likely happened before he hit you. Understanding them gives you POWER to recognize and walk away from another abusive person before it escalates.

Yes, I absolutely realise that now.

I'm trying to make the point that I didn't see any red flags. Before the first slap. Nor did anybody else. When your whole family is tripping about how lovely and reliable this man is, when your friends on your wedding day who know him say "you're so lucky, a man like that will never hurt you" when he's a pillar in your community and your best friend

Then it happens.

You believe the apology, the mortification, it would be silly to leave what's normally great for one mistake wouldn't it? (Now I know it was exactly what I should have done, but it wasn't easy to think that when it seemed out of the blue the first time and totally out of character)

My ex told me that he set out to "break" me and was proud of himself for succeeding.

You people are amazing: working on your recovery and educating your children, whilst the abusers are still stuck in the cycle and looking for their next victim.

We were together years before I fell pregnant.

I completely know now... but years of thinking I knew him well. I did not see that coming.

The poor woman who left after years of not being scared of her stb exH, just unhappy at some of his controlling ways around her socialising; went to get house papers signed, declined the offer of company for her safety as he'd never hurt her, so she had no fear of him, killed her.

You cannot know, until it happens, there are many cross-over traits that make you think , and hindsight shows us so much in joining the dots.

You just never know who you are with some are very very good at it, and there might be indicators, but psychologists don't have the answers, judges, solicitors, cafcass, ss.

We live in a patriarchy because women are weak...not!

I was abused. I found that whilst I was being abused I was ‘strong, ballsy’ etc but that’s because I had to be because my mind was in fight or flight mode.
Now (years after the abuse) I’m a bit of a pushover in that I will usually apologise first in an argument, I won’t easily get into an argument be because I actually find them quite frightening. I also suffer with anxiety now. It’s like the complete opposite of what I was when I was being abused! I think it’s because I no longer have to fight for mental survival of abuse

I think that some women perceive themselves as "strong and independent" because they've had insecure childhoods and have learned not to rely on others. They don't have the internal template for a healthy relationship and therefore are more likely to get involved in unhealthy/abusive ones.

I don’t dispute that shriek these kinds of things change all of us one way or another, nor do I judge in the least little bit. I hadn’t known any of them before, I have no idea what they were like pre DV. I simply meant it’s hard sometimes to envisage a person in a certain type of situation.

I agree the description “strong” is strange.

I’m incredibly wary of anyone who uses it as a “catch-all” term.

It’s actually a symptom of abusive and controlling behaviour - labelling someone the “strong” (or the “quiet” one) in order to control them. Because then the “strong” one has to do everything.

It’s a bit like when people encourage younger women to be “outspoken” or “have a voice”.

When actually what they’re trying to do is set them up to look ridiculous and say the wrong thing in the wrong circumstances?(rather than making themselves aware of the social politics of a situation before engaging with it)

Or when managers are trying to get someone to take on the shit job that no-one else wants to do it’s like “you’re SO good at this”

Often “strong” includes the assumption that I then have the time and resources to fight other people battles, look after them, and put myself last.

“I am mindful of my own emotions and generally take myself away from situations which do not contribute to my emotional wellbeing.” is fine.

I’m also happy to take “weak and princessy” labels any day.

I’d prefer the men in my life to be emotionally protective as I work towards my life goals, not praising me for my “strength” in order to manipulate my vanity into playing Mummy to them and serving their needs.

It's really not about the women. It's about the men. There might be specific categories that are more vulnerable, but you will find women of any age,race, social status etc that have been or are abused. There are women who deal with all the ugly aftermath of abuse, that are being abused themselves.
I do think that women at the extreme ends of the spectrum find it a lot more difficult to leave. At the low end,because no one gives a shit about them and no one ever did, because there's nothing else and society always told her she doesn't deserve better. At the high end there's shame and appearances and status. There's disbelief and reputation . It doesn't really matter though, all around the world there are millions of victims not because of who they were or are now,but because a man wanted to abuse them.
And it never starts with a punch. There's gaslighting, slightly pushing boundaries, "banter", stropping etc. Some men don't even need to raise their hand to properly fuck up a woman.

I'm what some call an empath. My XH is textbook narcissistic personality disorder. Narcs feed on kind, empathetic, forgiving people. Male or female.

I agree with you OP. I think many men who do this want to break a strong woman down as it is more of a challenge. They delight in it and then move on when they've got a wreck who is wondering about her own sanity after years of gaslighting and the rest.

Very manipulative so a woman who can be manipulated easily isn't much fun as anyone can do it. Plus other people don't see a weaker woman as annoying whereas society is conditioned to see strong women as the bitchy sort who "probably had it coming" or did something to instigate any fight, etc. You can see it all over the net - Gina Millar for example attracts these vile types like a bear to honey.

Interesting.

I can catagorically say I do not have low self worth and I do not consider my "strenght" to be me wasting my energy. Why didnt I leave straight away? For the same reason most of us dont. We believe it was a one off, that they will change, that they have learned their lesson....... and of course I loved him.

I really couldnt disagree with you more Magician. How you feel your energy was wasted is your story, but it isnt mine. My story is mine and no one elses. We all get through it and out (or not) in our own way and I dont think that it is helpful to say that your experience is the only valid one, as you appear to be saying. I do appreciate your responses but I really do disagree with your POV being relevant to me and my experience.

FWIW, strong to me is strong in mind and self belief. I am not a loud aggressive or shouty person, I just stand by what I believe is right and I will not bend my will to another person simply because they think that I should do as I am told. I work hard, support my children financialy, practically and emotionally. When things go wrong I dont fall apart, I cope. I am not an angry person or a panicker, I dont see the point as it doesnt solve anything.

Definitely disagree.

I should add for the sake of honesty that this is the only abusive relationship I have had, with the exception of one short lived boyfriend when I was a teenager. I was not abused in any way as a child and my previous husband was not abusive, we split up because we grew apart and are still friends.

I do not feel that some of the "truths" about being a DV victim are in anyway representative of me and my experience and I find it worrying that "Well this WILL have happened, you just didnt see it...." is being pushed as irrefutable fact in all cases. There can be certain things that make abuse more likely to happen of course, but just because they are true in many cases doesnt mean they are true in all cases.

Surely each case is as different as the abuser and the abused?

PyongyangKipperbang well said. For me strength was much of how you described. Also, eating healthy, engaging in my hobbies, socializing, enjoyed studying, enjoyed my career, aspiring yet also content. Abusive people do enjoy tearing other people down. I've seen it time and time again. Whether it's the workplace bully jealous of a coworker's competence, or someone low in self esteem who can't stand another person 's success or the school yard bully targeting the child who is academically smart, or the misogynist who can't tolerate a woman being anything higher than inferior to him (how dare she regard herself an equal).

I agree with RebelWitchFace

I wouldn't know enough to tell whether such women are MORE likely to get abused - suspect it all depends on the abuser, I suppose, but again, I don't have the figures.

What I would most certainly agree with is that there is a certain type of man who takes pleasure in trying to subjugate women who 'don't know their place'.

I'm quite ballsy and outspoken. I'm also a professional on a 150+k pa salary and generally perceived as very together. And I know for a fact that there are men who are after me because they see me as a challenge. It's utterly objectifying. I think in their minds l'm basically a wild mustang and they're the heroic cowboys that manage to break and tame it. Or something.

Luckily for me, some shit relationships later I've become quite adept at spotting the early warning signs. But I'd agree that it's definitely a thing for some men.

if you find yourself in a abusive relationship you are simply unlucky.

Agree with Pyong you cannot force circumstances into ppl just because that's what you believe and I don't understand why many are so desperate to implicate women somehow in men's depraved weaknesses, some women get unlucky and who cares what happened to women before. Let's not shift the focus of the men, the perpetrators, the ones responsible, lets talk about them a lot more and leave the women out of it, I don't even see the point of it.

vuripadexo

How dare you?! I am so angry at your attempt to shoehorn me into your view of what an abused woman is and has been. I will not take your victim blaming.

Here's news, you dont know me. You may think you have me all down because you have read all the right books and believe that what is true of some women must be true of all, but you are WRONG. You do not have the right to tell me that my childhood will have contributed to my abuse, how dare you insult my family like that?! I am, believe it or not, well aware that negative patterns are far more than being physically abused.....I am not the idiot you clearly take me for.

I will not engage with you and your ill informed psyhcobabble anymore.

I think it's "wrong" to try and profile the victim. Because that's why so many fall through the crack or are afraid to speak out. There is no set profile of the victim(there are groups that are more vulnerable) and insisting there are or a specific victim background is what helps society minimise abuse (and in some cases even the women justifying it to themselves).

I think this is what sparked this thread for OP, the fact that so many people close to her refused to accept (easily) that she is a victim because she isn't what they think a DV victim should be. She doesn't fit the "profile". She came out as a victim and she was told why she can't be. She can't be because she's string.

And on this thread she calls herself strong, and some people are telling her why she can't be. She can't (couldn't have been) strong because she's a victim of DV.