to think that its logical to think that "strong" women are MORE likely to be victims of abuse?

[PyongyangKipperbang]

I have "come out" as a victim of domestic abuse. Everyone knows we split up, but now I have found myself able to talk about why.

The amount of shock I have had, comments such as "But are you ballsy/strong/independent!", amazement that I have put up with it.....but surely if a man is threatened or hates women he is more likely to assault an apparently strong woman? She is more likely to stand her ground, more likely to argue back, less likely to walk on eggshells, more "in need" of taking down a peg and being shown her place?

Ime, women haters are attracted to apparently strong and independent women but then seem to need to take them down.

Please dont think that I am saying that only women like me are victims, women haters hate all women and will attack without prejudice, but its unfair to assume that a woman who doesnt take any shit should not "allow" herself to be a victim of abuse? I almost feel that people are thinking "Well she acts all proud and strong but she stayed with him for years...." as if they are, not blaming me for what happened, but blaming me that it went on so long.

@shreik, I have an extremely good understanding of abusive relationships.

It's my forte. Sadly. The OP uses the word strength. I feel that what she means here really is the energy to defend oneself.

And I am correct saying that a woman's strength is not what draws an abuser to her. It is low self-worth, and or familiar dynamic from childhood.

Nobody ''asks'' to be abused. Obviously. But women with a very healthy sense of themself will be turned OFF by abusive behavior.

Don't get hung up on the word strength. This is what I said to begin with. It's not strength to stick around fighting your corner. It's using up your energy in a way that doesn't serve you because that energy could be used overcoming the part of you that stays in this relationship.

The Human Magnet is a good book to explain this dynamic, Ross Rosenberg.

So, maybe, Dfwr it's about picking up on people's vulnerabilities?

Very thought provoking.

@shreik, you have misunderstood me. I do see it as strong to get away and recover.

But wasting your precious energy defending yourself and trying to reason with an abuser is not strength, it's fuelling a destructive dynamic that will happily go around in circles for as long as you let it.

If anybody wants to understand more about the dynamic check out Meredith Miller (Inner Integration) on youtube. Other helpful people who talk about relationships on youtube Allen Robarge, Lisa A Romano. That's a good start though.

@comedyboobs, yes, the ''human magnet syndrome''. One person's low self esteem manifests itself in entitled, selfish, abusive behavior and when they meet a person with a low self-esteem whose low self esteem is presented in a mirrored way, giving too much, accepting too much, aiming to please, living for approval... there is a dysfunctional RESONANCE

They mirror each other.

Same. My exh was abusive and said he chose me when I was because I was a challenge

@shreik, I also believed I had a great childhood but in the last 11 years since I left my xh I have realised that my mother never 'saw' me as a separate person. She told me what to think. It was all a lot more subtle than anything I ever experienced with my xh but when I met him, bam, that dynamic was familiar. His disapproval, the feeling that if I tried a bit harder I could please him....... it felt bad but it felt normal. My mother never respects my boundaries. Even though she'd never engage in verbal abuse she does engage in martyr beast performances so the pressure to appease her was constant and then when I met my x, obviously, we ''resonated''. the manifestation of my lack of a sense of myself mirrored his manifestation of his low self esteem and bingo, i was back in my family of origin with a ''romantic'' partner.

@mumto2babyboys ''Same. My exh was abusive and said he chose me when I was because I was a challenge''

You felt the need to defend yourself. A symptom.

When I was younger.

It's all about control for these men. Not love

I found the tv show
big little lies

helpful and accurate

"It felt bad but it felt normal"

I guess when OP says "strong" I presume she's the sort of person who would always stand for herself, and never find it normal. The sort of person who would hit back, of course, every time. Strong = would never make excuses for other's people misbehaviour, and would never think she should put up with it. I don't know what types of strength people see in OP or how those people define strong.

You'll have to tell us why you didn't walk out & refuse to ever speak to him or live with him again after the first time he hit you OP.

No one leaves straight away because they love them that's why

these men are not normal they are extra charming and could sell tea to china with their false promises to change

No, sorry. All arse about face.
Everyone has vulnerabilities, you'd not be human else.
Stats don't bear out what you claim, and no its not a choice. Abuse removes choice.

Are you just here to push this book?

It is attributing something in the abused. You cannot make an abuser, simples.

Pat craven will tell you, she's worked with them for years and knows their machinations, and that its unrelated to the abused, but the abuser.

I had no where to go.

Literally nowhere.

I left with nothing and had to leave my kids with him and fight for access.

(It is all good now, I’m fine kids fine)

I HATE. The why didn’t you leave. I had NO friends. None. Not one. My parents didn’t talk to me or have anything to do with me and wouldn’t have helped anyway.

I built a relarionship with them after but it’s fallen apart again and I’ve made the decision to walk away and not ever see them again.

I slept in a shed for two weeks and showered at work. Bought cheap clothes even knickers from primark to do me. Washed them out in the morning in the sink at work.

Walked miles to and from the shed every day before and after work. I left the shed at 4?30 am to walk to the train to get to work.

I had NOTHING. I HAD NOWEHRRE TO GO.

@ragged, yes, that's what's valuable, the inner barometre to just know, no, to feel, innately, deeply, profoundly.. that there is no excuse, none, not one single excuse for treating you like shit. And you walk away then and you don't look back. I knew it in theory but I couldn't apply it. So I stood there arguing with him for 7 years.

I am judging NOBODY by the way. Why would I. I completely forgive myself for the self destructive path I took when I didn't believe I was worth more.

I suppose people assume that if a woman is strong, she will walk out at the first sign of abuse, or at least pretty soon after. Or that she will be the kind of person who can spot an abuser and will never date one in the first place. In reality of course it's not that straightforward.

People who have never been in an abusive or dv relationship will find it difficult to understand, like I did until I was educated (and horrified) by the threads on the MN Relationships board.

Was someone kind enough to let you go in the shed or did you have to squat?

If you've ever been hit you'd understand the shock of it and the cognitive dissonance that follows when it threatens all you had come to believe about this man who loves you so much and you love so much.

It's not something that can be easily explained in a thread. There is a complex psychological process that a survivor goes through to come to the point of perspective, as the abuse changes ones psychology, no matter how 'strong' to start with. Love, loyalty, changing ones set of beliefs, indoctrination, brain-washing, battle zone, minimising, normalising, hoovering, love-bombing, all take their toll when poured upon a survivor. The sense of him needing you to get better, the same as an alcoholic. Women are subjected to it and become embroiled and drawn into it. It can take many years and sometimes a lifetime to relearn who they are.

@dfwr I hear you. Believe me. I didn't leave. I escaped. With a rucksack. I walked away from ''half a house'' in theory except I knew I would never have gotten a penny out of him, he would have destroyed me first. But I do understand that perfectly. Nowhere to go and no money when you get there. That's what kept me stuck for three years out of the seven.

Ahh, I see.... Slowly.

Some people like to see others on 'the back foot'... It makes them feel good.

Op - being a strong woman - any 'chinks in the armour' that you shared with said 'man'? There were in mine which I unfortunately shared, you know, being human & sharing etc. Never thought it would be used against me - (they were) . Because I'm one of those types who talks & shows empathy (doesn't store it up for a future weapon). If someone's going through shit you'd want want to help? Surely? & then celebrate the good times. Then doubly celebrate the good times if they'd overcome shit times? Surely?

It was a hut sort of in a park (don’t want to out myself) so I was squatting.

There was a blanket and a deckchair. It was absolutely the worst time of my life ever. Grim. Beyond grim.

And anyone who says it was anything to do with strength why he picked me is wrong imo.

This must stop. I don't want to hear these stories all the time when I'm 75, too. We can't change the creeps & abusers, but we women can change ourselves. Must always stand up for selves. And ALWAYS teach our daughters to do so.

@shreik, hope you're ok now.

I understand this. I was strangled and then five minutes later he'd offer me a cup of tea as a way of apology. Then he'd get annoyed with me all over again that I wouldn't accept his peace offering instantly, because he felt so much better! after having nearly killed me! It's an excellent coping mechanism you know. {sarcastic}

At the time, I remember thinking that it would be dramatic to leave, because after all, if I hadn't left the first time he hit me, or the second or the third, then it would be almost ludicrously dramatic to just suddenly draw a line in the sand and leave now. I felt like ''this isn't Eastenders''.

I wasted so much energy dialoguing with myself, asking myself what was happy, did i have the right to be happy, were my grandparents happy, would leaving be swapping one set of problems with another.

I understand it all. There is nothing about abusive relationships that I don't understand.

My comments about defending yourself to an abuser not being strength have ''triggered'' some people but I can see now reading this that I am a little bit triggered by the suggestion that I don't understand abusive relationships and their affect on your thinking.

to everybody who got away

Sorry, yes, I forgot the isolation too, which even on its own is massive!

Do not blame women for a patriarchal society where abusive men thrive, where men are given access to their DC even when women in hiding and ss give this info to the rapist father, as yes, happened recently! Disgusting ss behaviour, again!

Dfwr so glad you are out of it all now, and I hope life is so much better, but it is hard starting all over again.

How do you mean Magician? I haven't told you anything about myself!

@ragged yes, it is about us and what we are prepared to tolerate.

I should have got turned off on date two when he got cross with me for having a headache. i should have got turned off when he rushed me. So much behaviour early one that would turn me right off now. But it didn't because I was hardwired to win approval. Not to ''bestow'' it.

But don’t you understand. Standing up for myself made it worse. I had to decide my life was so worthless that my kids would be better off without me and walk away ready to jump in the river before I could leave.

And he used to crow at me that he won. Because he had the house the car And I got nothing. And all I could fight for was the kids. Because by the time I’d fought to see them I had nothing left to fight for the money.

I don’t think people really understand.

He saw the abuse I’d already had in me and he picked me for that reason. And I had nowhere to go. Fighting back got me raped. Many many times. Broken eye orbit. Broken teeth. That cost me a fortune to fix. Coercive control. Destroying of birth control.

And I had to be at complete rock bottom where I was ready to kill myself ans that’s what I left to do that night. Only I couldn’t even do that.

Sorry I don’t usually talk about this and it’s hard. But I don’t think it’s strength that he picked me for. Or because I was a challenge. Because I wasn’t.