to think that its logical to think that "strong" women are MORE likely to be victims of abuse?

[PyongyangKipperbang]

I have "come out" as a victim of domestic abuse. Everyone knows we split up, but now I have found myself able to talk about why.

The amount of shock I have had, comments such as "But are you ballsy/strong/independent!", amazement that I have put up with it.....but surely if a man is threatened or hates women he is more likely to assault an apparently strong woman? She is more likely to stand her ground, more likely to argue back, less likely to walk on eggshells, more "in need" of taking down a peg and being shown her place?

Ime, women haters are attracted to apparently strong and independent women but then seem to need to take them down.

Please dont think that I am saying that only women like me are victims, women haters hate all women and will attack without prejudice, but its unfair to assume that a woman who doesnt take any shit should not "allow" herself to be a victim of abuse? I almost feel that people are thinking "Well she acts all proud and strong but she stayed with him for years...." as if they are, not blaming me for what happened, but blaming me that it went on so long.

I mean @shreik that I hope that whatever situation enables you to explain the dynamics of an abusive relationship to me (which is like selling sand to the arabs) I hope that it is behind you.

Sorry x posts. It took me too long to type that.

Not sure what you're reading into ppl's writibg s but can't see anyone triggered by your saying arguing not being strength.

I haven't seen anything written here arguing that point with you? Only that women are not to blame, or different takes on what strength is.

My belief is that the strength is in surviving it.

Your blaming is inappropriate (that others with different opinions can only be a result of being triggered)

What are you on about Magician? Read back what you just said. I think you are playing with words.

It is true, though, unfortunately. Strong woman are seen as a treat, to be brought down & put back in our boxes.

@shriek, I am not understanding your posts either. You seem to be misinterpreting simply meant good wishes for you (same as you expressed to another poster that she was in a good place, getting away is hard, it takes strength, yes yes yes I agree with all of that) but when I expressed that to you you replied that you didn't know what I was talking about even though you expressed similar good wishes to dfwr.

I don't understand at all. So I'll bail now because one thing i have genuinely learnt is that sticking around to defend yourself when people seem inclined to give what you've said a negative rather than a positive interpretation is what got me sucked in to the abusive relationship in the first place.

I am not playing with words and there is nothing I don't understand about abusive relationships.

Good luck to you.

I think you can get different types of strong. You get people that come across as cocky, loud, bubbly etc.. that don't really have a lot if self worth and these can attract bad lads as they seem fun to the guy and feel the need to 'have somebody'.

You then get people you are quiet, intelligent, polite (So maybe are a bit boring for a bad lad) but have a lot of inner strength and self confidence and don't feel the need to settle. These people tend to be more financially independent too.

I don't see any malice/misunderstanding in shrieks posts. It's just another viewpoint.

Shriek

Why are you harassing TheMagician and insinuating she's a con artist selling a book?

Everything she is saying is true. Women who suffer childhood victimization and abuse are statistically more likely to enter abusive relationships. Abusers are 100% not attracted to strength. They are attracted to women who have internalized messages that make an abuser's initial boundary and behavior violations more palatable.

There's an Australian theory called "shark cage theory" that explains this best.

I'm quoting the entire explanation below:

According to Benstead, the world is a big beautiful ocean filled with lots of harmless friendly fish, as well as dangerous predators. To survive in this ocean, you need a good Shark Cage. People aren’t born with Shark Cages – we build them with the help of the people around us when we are young – our caregivers and everyone we come into contact with during childhood contribute to the quality of our Shark Cage.

If we are taught through words and actions that it’s not acceptable for people to shout at us or call us names, that’s one bar in the Shark Cage. If we are taught it’s not acceptable for people to hit us, that’s another bar. If we are taught it’s not acceptable for people to touch us in ways that make us uncomfortable that’s another bar. When all the bars are in place, sharks bang up against them and find it hard to get close enough to bite.

Many women who experience repeated domestic violence relationships have incomplete Shark Cages. Many work extremely hard, often for very long periods of time, to try to save their relationships, by rescuing and protecting the perpetrators of violence, and minimising or denying the violence against them, believing on some level that if they just try hard enough and love the perpetrator enough, then the violence and abuse against them will stop.

Most victims have also internalised messages of shame and blame, not only from the perpetrators, but also from our society.

What can be very helpful for women wishing to address patterns of violence in their relationships, is remembering that they cannot control their abusive partner’s choices and tactics, but they can focus on the physical, emotional and psychological safety of themselves and their children.

With professional help to process past traumas, and the courage and willingness to do so, coupled with a healthy support network of safe people, and societal messages reinforcing that victims are never to blame, survivors of domestic and family violence can not only survive but thrive.

This is the basis of things like The Freedom Programme. Women are attracted to or vulnerable to abuse and programs like this help reduce this.

OP: please do the Freedom Programme. Believing you were targeted because you were strong is another false belief that makes you vulnerable to abuse.

I am.disagreeing, which is fine. It's takes phenomenal strength to get up every day and continue in abuse, choices are taken away in abuse.

I don't understand what Magician is saying, as I've nt spoken about myself but is insisting unrelated wishes on me, which is a bit weird, and blaming ppls opinions on them being triggered.

And no, WA have no stats to prove its about the women, its about the men.

Please explain how it works then when a woman is strong and not 'up for some abuse'? Is all seeing and knowing and impervious to it, yet stills gets abused, sometimes for life and never escapes?

I am sorry you feel the need to leave the thread, just because I don't feel the need to accept what you are saying, that is your choice, but please don't make assumptions about me or others that you cannot know

@vuripadexo please read the fred. OP has been clear about her situation.

Victims of DV come from all walks of life and all different personalities. Same with perpetrators I suppose.

A lot of the women I lived in refuge with seemed to be quite intimidating and I couldn’t imagine anyone abusing them (and living to tell the tale) but there we all were- living in a women’s refuge so being downright scary in some cases doesn’t protect you from abuse and scratch the surface and every single one of them had some kind of trauma in their past before they were even in the relationship that put them in refuge.

I think the abuse changes you profoundly and can be the cause of the behaviour you saw in refuge Lilmy

I don't think I am strong as such but on the face of it I appeared to be. Going through the care system and then being a survivor of abuse as a child made me a bolshier human being. For a time I was probably seen as a no nonsense go to person involved in youth work etc with young people who could be incredibly challenging. I think my family forgot tbh that what looked like me standing up for myself wasn't necessarily so.

It was after doing the freedom programme that I realised I was in an abusive marriage and decided to leave and really stand up for myself.

I still think some of them dont yet believe I was an abuse victim and feel sorry for the bastard that I made his life difficult by leaving and protecting myself from future abuse. He is an excellent manipulator. For years I truly did believe the way he behaved was absolutely my fault for provoking him

Shriek

I think you and the OP have both internalized a belief that being abused makes you strong. It's comforting but dangerous and seriously wrong.

True strength is routed in value and valuing yourself. A woman who values herself will leave BEFORE ever getting hit. A woman who doesn't value herself but learns to value herself will leave once she gets up the courage.

True strength is not taking abuse not sticking around to talk back.

Some women mistake loudness or bolshiness for self esteem. In the same way a loud man picking fights with everyone may have low esteem, many women have no self esteem but think being "fiesty" means something.

interestingdebatetoday

exactly. often people have HAD to learn to be louder to protect themselves because they have been in less than ideal home situations. It's not a protective.

A woman who values herself will leave BEFORE ever getting hit

Or a woman mistakenly thinks her husband can be no threat, he's simply a gentle slightly insecure man but we all have flaws and he was really sweet earlier and this just seems like a mood, it will pass...

And bam.

Without ever seeing it coming.

That was my experience the first time anyway

Agree with you on the other points though

Then you must believe its easy being abused. I am not talking personally BTW, as I keep pointing out

I so however think its insulting to say that about abused women, that they are weak, and more fool them for staying speak

Shriek

I'm not saying they are weak but they have weak boundaries. They have false beliefs about what love and relationships look like. Calling it strength is dangerous.

interestingdebatetoday

I understand what you are saying but... the reality is that the physical abuse will not have come out of the blue but your experiences in the care system and with your family probably prepared you to excuse all the other behavior as "acceptable flaws". You were conditioned in your childhood to think that love involves some sort of neglect or abuse and that's why you were unaware until the physical abuse started.

I think one abusive relationship doesn't necessarily mirror another. It's easy to generalise and say the woman ended up in it because of this or because of that

You just don't know. Sometimes the woman stays as she knows her kids won't see their father if she leaves or admits it

Sometimes the woman stays because he threatens he will kill himself if she goes

Sometimes the woman has a clue what's coming next, sometimes she doesn't

Some relationships start ok and turn abusive

Some always were abusive

It's so easy to believe that your DH could never do that. I believed it with my whole heart. Never in a million years. Then it happened. He seemed mortified, lots of promises, he even told people to hold himself "accountable" then it happened again... and the cycle went that way for me

In my head an abusive relationship was where it happened constantly. So I didn't wake up till it was

"strong" [in the sense of a woman's character] is such a meaningless umbrella term, capable of meaning so many things, that it doesn't surprise me either way.