To say its not a disease its a habit which started with choice. Alcoholism

[TreeFu]

My mother is a prolific binge drinker much to the detriment of myself and others around her, she has accepted she has a problem with drink but cannot be bothered to do anything to change her habits.

She can and does go for periods of time without touching one drop of alcohol, this is when she has no money to access it. During those periods she is just fine without it but as soon as she has access to money, she will binge until it runs out.

AIBU to believe this has nothing to do with disease and is down to her being weak willed, selfish and enjoying booze more than she cares about the wellbeing of those around her.

@Treefu maybe that is a positive thing for you. Instead of trying to rescue her from herself, which is impossible anyway, focus on you and your needs. Meet your brother, if you want to. Focus on the people who are there for you and with whom you can actually have a relationship. I'm sorry. You must have been let down so many times.

is down to her being weak willed

How much free will do you imagine we any of us really have?

She enjoys the power to cause chaos and ruin things for other people
you should just dump her

Her friend (massive enabler in the situation) has said mums lost her phone so I can't call her, the situation is what it is and that's it, followed with "can't chat now resting bye x"

I'm fucking furious, not only has she spoiled his birthday she/they are taking the cowards way out by dropping the bombshell then retreating into their cave and not discussing it.

I don't know what if anything is going on about these so called hallucinations either. How do I know she hasn't made it up? If it's true is that a sign that she's going to be dead soon or what?

For god sake I despair

Why don't you reply to her best friend andid say "Why are you enabling my mother in her alcoholism. You shouldn't have agreed to make excuses on her behalf." Perhaps this should be the straw that makes you and your brother finally cut contact with her.

No correlation between hallucinations and impending death. Probably alcohol-induced psychosis. If it's even true and not just exaggerated to justify cancelling.

I responded to her 'friend' and said well if she's hallucinating she needs to be assessed my a mental health team, take her to the hospital.

No, friend said. Mum wants to talk through it with the GP tomorrow morning.

(were under the same surgery so I know she wouldn't be able to get an appointment tomorrow morning at such short notice)

She was supposed to be meeting me tomorrow morning so I could take her to meet Dbro in the city, now suddenly she wants to go and speak to the GP.

I feel like going round there and throttling her (not helpful obviously and not serious)

Why don't you contact Al Anon and go to some meetings and meet others who have parents who are alcoholics. It might help a lot in setting your boundaries with her.
Your Mum doesn't 'enjoy' drinking. She's can't live without it at the minute. Its a feelings-management system.
Loads of people who smoke say they 'enjoy' smoking. They only enjoy it because it relieves the painful withdrawal effects of being without it.

Most alcoholics don't die of liver failure these days, GPs can stave it off for a while.

I'm pretty sure they do!

I agree that alcoholism is a disease but I don't think it means that sufferers are absolved of responsibility for trying to manage it. I grew up with an alcoholic parent who did try to manage it but often relapsed. I spent most of my 20s and 30s bitterly angry about the way it affected me and the rest of the family. But I don't think it was really a free choice to drink. Neither do I think there can be any absolving of responsibility. It's extremely complex and I don't think it's helpful to oversimplify it because I'm very cynical about the idea that most alcoholics could stop drinking if they really tried.

I'm not sure I buy the hallucinating lark and I think it's a ploy to get out of my brothers birthday. Surely if that was true the first thing you'd do is go to A&E, or be taken by the person 'looking after' you.

I know if she was at my place and was hallucinating I'd take her there myself, yet I've been told not to ring the NHS helpline or call for any sort of help.

Seems fishy to me.

K, and I disagree with you because I know a fair few middle-class people from good families, have had every advantage, who are functioning alcoholics.

I'm sure it's true that a lot of alcoholics have chaotic backgrounds. Equally, many people from chaotic backgrounds change tack entirely in their adulthood and strive mightily to avoid their parents' vices.

Alaska I agree with what you say.
Also there are plenty of people who had chaotic and dysfunctional upbringings who didn’t become alcoholics so surely there must be some predisposition in people for alcoholism and drug addiction.
Op, I agree with all those who suggested Al Anon. It will help you enormously.

Bad things can still happen to people from "good families"

Well they say obesity is a disease abs that starts with choice too

I grew up with an alcoholic parent. It eventually killed him. Originally my judgement was very clouded because I totally resented how his drinking affected our family. I totally get the OP's resentment, I found it hard to forgive my Dad even in death. Alcohol affects the whole family and damages those close to the alcoholic. Of course you feel she should just stop. I cut myself off, he didn't give me away at my wedding, and met my youngest DD once. Took me a long long time to actually think anything positive about him.
I work in a social care environment, and have now learned that alcoholism is more complicated than that. Often there are undiagnosed mental health issues where people do self medicated with alcohol, and it isn't as easy as it first appears. Also heard some dreadful stories of why people drink/ take drugs to escape some dreadful memories and situations.

They are just different perspectives on the same issue. Both are valid.

Of course it is true that nobody is force alcohol down their throat. It is a choice they make. They could make a different choice every time, they reach for the bottle.

From a medical perspective, it is not about making moral judgments or having philosophical discussion about free will.

A doctor's job is to make people better and he should look for the most effective way of doing that. To do that you have to forget about the freewill aspect and treat drinking as a dependent variable.

It's the same with obesity. You can say the answer is for people to eat less food which is true but the question for professionals is how do you get people to eat less food.

When she's gone to the GP in the past she had blood tests done and the results said she was OK and the GP gave her a pamphlet for a "time to talk" therapy service, she went the once and refused to go back saying she felt as though she was just repeating herself.

At what point will a doctor offer medical assistance? If it is a disease in the eyes of some medical professionals I'm interested to know what treatment is prescribed to the alcoholics because after several trips to A&E and the doctors she hasn't been offered anything (not that I think the public purse should pay for her in the first place) but even when I took her to A&E in the past all they did was give a leaflet with a telephone number on for some other sort of general helpline.

She's not the sort of person who would go to meetings and counselling, she may if pushed take medication but what stage does she need to get to before that's an option?

Although AlAnon is a brilliant place to start to heal, they see alcoholism as a disease. They tell you to take the focus off the alcoholic and on to yourself. I can't go to meetings anymore because of childcare issues, but I couldn't get past what selfish bastards my dad and xh were. I still can't.

I'm not involved in the drama and chaos any more, but I've been diagnosed now with PTSD because of the trauma. Fucking addicts 😡

It's not a helpful discussion for me, beyond mild curiousity why the terms are often used.

Debate whether to call addiction or compulsive behaviour 'disease' or not, seems to be about ASSIGNING BLAME. If that's your only interest, then go for it. Believe whatever you like that lets you enjoy hating someone. You'll be ultra in fashion to do that & find plenty company.

If someone treats you badly, you don't need to be sympathetic or care why they are like that. You're allowed to take care of yourself first.

So when does it matter whether disease is an ok label... I got impression reading BB that the reason Bill W & Dr. Bob wanted to call alcoholism a disease because

A) They wanted to believe there was a process that could overcome it. But it was a series of steps to follow, like a series of treatments for a complex medical condition, not a lightswitch thing. Looking for a lightswitch-fixes-everything moment would never work.

B) They wanted scope for forgiveness, not to be labeled as selfish evils. Working for that forgiveness is a big part of AA's 12 steps.

People who think the disease label absolves the addict of responsibility or free will, don't understand 12 step programmes anyway.

Because she needs to hit her own "rock bottom" , before she will seek help. She would be referred through her GP for to the local drug and alcohol partnership. The alcoholic has to ask for the help before she would be taken seriously. No point in wasting resources in people that don't want to be there.
Sadly many alcoholics don't recognise they have a problem, they tell people they just had a bit too much. . She might have said she didn't need help, she could stop when she wanted to.
That's why they would only give her a leaflet. Depending on what the service on the leaflet was, she could access other services through that. She would need to make the call though.

OP your mum needs to go to a specialist drug and alcohol service for the correct help, gps and a+e just aren't equipped for it x

I think there is a huge spectrum of alcohol dependency from mild dependency or inappropriate use to physical addiction and severe illness and death from unsustainable amounts of alcohol taken in.
There are many many causes that may cause a person to be substance dependent from emotional and mental Heath issues to lack of moderation and self regulation to circumstances such as working in the industry, celebrity industry etc.
Each case is different.
When you have lived lifelong with an alcoholic it's hard not to feel that person is selfish and they have let you down- as indeed they have usually have neglected their children etc.
The reason it's contentious is. Cause it involves a choice of putting something into the body- something pleasurable but harmful, a bit like smoking. So it's not as clear cut a ' disease ' as severe mental health issues but can be more like addiction to smoking or leading a very unhealthy lifestyle through choice.

Yabvu it is a disorder something ppl have to battle with daily even after rehabilitation unfortunately

It's a pattern of self pity and self loathing that takes everybody down with it. It is cruel. It destroys families. It breaks hearts.

To me, this is such a good description of how it feels as a relative. It's irrelevant who OPs mum needs to see for help, as she's not seeking help . This is out of OP's hands and she needs to detach. Detach with love they say in al-anon.

Fwiw I don't like the saying 'it's a family disease' either. I know why it's said, but it makes out the people around the alcoholic, such as their children are now 'ill' rather than just traumatised for example. I have a very high ACE score but sought therapy and took steps to try to deal with the pain. An alcoholic has the choice to do that too, but often they prefer to drink and really seem to not care who that hurts. That is peoples reality as their children, being put second to drink.

OP if you haven't already read it, you might find the book 'codependent no more' helpful. The important thing is to take the focus off the alcoholic and start taking more care of you.