to think that Labour's stance on moped ramming is stupid

[longfingernails]

The Metropolitan Police have been knocking over moped muggers with their cars, and releasing the footage as a deterrent. It's a fantastic idea which has cut moped crime dramatically.

Predictably, the Shadow Home Secretary has said 'it shouldn't be legal for anyone'.

Why is Labour's instinct always to side with the scumbag criminals over the victims, the police and the decent people?

JustAnotherPoster00 - Ha ha ha !

I don't get why those who think the police being given permission to harm members of the public is acceptable then conflate those of us against it as being pro moped muggers?

That's how the debate was framed early on, and many people aren't that good at debating.
There is a place in between stripping unconvicted criminals of their human rights and giving them a free pass.

A lot of the moped riders are children who are being criminally exploited. I can't comprehend anyone thinking it's acceptable for the police to go around knocking vulnerable children off mopeds. This country is fucking insane.

There is a place in between stripping unconvicted criminals of their human rights and giving them a free pass.

Indeed. And knocking identified violent criminal suspects off their mopeds, used for the purpose of making apprehension very difficult, is well within the acceptable zone of balancing their rights with society’s broader welfare.

A lot of the moped riders are children who are being criminally exploited.

Are you sure? Where does that come from? And by ‘children’ do you mean under-18s?

Im sure theres a direct correlation between those who want this policy and Brexit voters

I'm massively opposed to Brexit but I don't oppose this policy. I don't see what else the police can do really and I'll reserve my sympathy for people who aren't violent thugs.

Im sure theres a direct correlation between those who want this policy and Brexit voters

Haha, yeah of course it is

Im sure theres a direct correlation between those who want this policy and Brexit voters

Hahaha

Massively oppose this policy..... Massively support Brexit. So wrong

ElizabethG81 I'm guessing you haven't been attacked several times by people who have not been caught?

Yes, by children I mean people who are under 18. The legal definition of a child.

I know that a lot of them are criminally exploited because this is my area of work.

I was burgled last night... they took all my jewellery, most of it was my deceased mother’s, so irreplaceable. They went through every single drawer and cupboard in the house, took out a weapon stored in a wardrobe and left it against a door which they had propped open as their escape route. Presumably they would have used it if we had come home. I would have had no hesitation in hurting them if I could, however I am an elderly woman so I suspect I would have come off worse.

Police have been great, but they mentioned restorative justice and I laughed. If these scum want to prey upon ordinary people, if they get a taste of their own medicine I will be very glad. I am an ardent Remainer by the way.

They are then best served by being arrested and getting the help they need than by being allowed to continue in their exploited life of crime and developing into exploiters of others as is the only way forward from there.

U-18 is not the legal definition of a child.

I’d be happy to bow to your professional knowledge if you could explain what you mean by ‘exploited’ and demonstrate that the term is properly used. I have a feeling you simply mean ‘take part in crime with older people’.

I find it very hard to believe that “a lot” of these criminals are children who only do it under duress.

angstridden2 - I am so very sorry.

Your consistent use of the word "scumbag" makes you sound like the Daily Mail OP.

Imagine your son was knocked off his moped & died because he was mistakenly identified as a moped thief?

On the other had I do sympathise with the met who have a horrendous job keeping up with the inevitable crime wave caused largely by Tory austerity and huge cuts to their budget and youth services....

But never mind let's give the EU £39 billion as a divorce bill because we don't like polish plumbers!! 🙄

@SmiledWithTheRisingSun the OP is mn's answer to the Daily Mail, only more right wing. Doesn't believe disabled people should get financial assistance for instance and a fan of eugenics for disabled children.

Mrs Reacher - Thanks. It could have been worse, they didn’t trash the place, it was just even more untidy than usual! We could have been hurt so we are lucky but it would be nice to believe that karma will get them.

@BarbarianMum big difference between harm coming to someone because they're resisting arrest and an officer actively deciding to run someone over.

It’s very simple, if you don’t want to be knocked off then just stop for the police. Try and escape and all bets are off. It’s just the sort of deterrent these bastards need. Any serious injury/death that befalls these cunts is just a bonus. If the lefty twats had their way they’d be given a hug and a holiday and told not to do it again.

A human being under the age of 18 absolutely is the legal definition of a child. What's your alternative definition?

Neither a brexit voter nor a mail reader and the area in which I've helped a lot of people, we used to get an average of one a week coming into my shop for refuge or to call the police, was not "posh" and nor were the victims posh

I am however a believer in consequences

btw though, which labour stance are we talking about? Khan's or Abbot's?

But the ramming option is only used when they resist Bishop. The option to, you know, stop when told to is open to them.

@angstridden2 I'm sorry for what happened and I agree restorative justice absolutely isn't appropriate but police budget cuts mean burglaries don't always get police visits now where I am - they don't have the resources. Disgusting.

A human being under the age of 18 absolutely is the legal definition of a child. What's your alternative definition?

They mean in terms of legal responsibility I imagine, which is a fair enough view in a discussion about crime I think

So a child ceases to be a child when they commit an offence? Interesting definition.