to think that Labour's stance on moped ramming is stupid

[longfingernails]

The Metropolitan Police have been knocking over moped muggers with their cars, and releasing the footage as a deterrent. It's a fantastic idea which has cut moped crime dramatically.

Predictably, the Shadow Home Secretary has said 'it shouldn't be legal for anyone'.

Why is Labour's instinct always to side with the scumbag criminals over the victims, the police and the decent people?

It's really simple.

You are riding a moped.

A police car comes up behind you with blues and twos on.

You move over to allow them to pass.

If they don't pass, and they honk their horn, or otherwise signal you, you stop. You find out what they want, and you comply politely with everything they ask, within the bounds of the law.

If a police car comes up behind you with blues and twos, and your reaction is to try to escape them, then obviously you're committing a crime.

Innocent people don't launch into police chases. They stop and say "What seems to be the problem officer?".

If you don't want to get chased by the police, then don't do anything illegal, and don't run when they try to talk to you. This isn't rocket science. The police aren't going to go around wrecking pizza delivery guys because they're wearing the same colour hoodie as a reported mugger. This is a last resort to stop a demonstrably dangerous criminal from escaping, not the first thing a police officer will attempt on someone who may or may not be the right suspect.

Post of the year, Frustratedmum.

I don't get why those who think the police being given permission to harm members of the public is acceptable then conflate those of us against it as being pro moped muggers?

Well actually I do think things like community facilities, opportunities (educational /arts/and sporting) and access to good adult mentors is really important. There is lots of evidencd that engaging positively with young people makes a huge difference. And even a crappy youth club can provide a refuge for kids with troubled home lives who dont want to hang around on street corners. So Im not going to sneer or mock those initiatives.

Nevertheless actual criminals need to be dealt with here and now.

But they will not have to be chased if they stop when asked by the police.

I in no way want or condone innocent people being hurt, but I don’t want to walk in fear of being mugged by someone on a moped. I managed to avoid it once, and it made me very apprehensive.

Criminals are often injured whilst resisting arrest Bishop. But it's there choice to resist.

Frustratedmum78 yeah I know it feels daft but if you can stop young boys feeling alienated from society in the first place so that gangs don’t become the only place they feel safe then they don’t turn out like these men. No ones suggesting a Capri sun and a chat will help those already ensnared but it’s an investment in the future.

Bishop

The police already have that permission. Do you think the police should never use force to arrest people or to protect the public.

The issue here is whether the force used is inherently excessive. Many of us think not, because of the difficulty of catching moped-riding criminals - which is why they ride mopeds in the first place - and the terrible violence they threaten or carry out.

I don’t think opposing the police’s tactics is support for violent robbery. I do think it’s opposition for the sake of it though.

Barbarianmum - problem is the welfare state has taken over the role of a father figure in many cases and successive governments think the answer to every social issue is to throw more money at the problem. Money is not a substitute for a good role model and stable upbringing. The problem, in my opinion, is the breakdown of the nuclear family. Young men need a father figure around to look up to but also to keep them in check. Because so many young men have never had this, it often falls on single mums to be mum, dad and breadwinner and this just doesn't work.

Rubbish women don’t have to stay in unhappy marriages to have a positive male role model. Just because you’re separated from your wife it doesn’t mean you can’t be a good father and role model. Let’s not blame single mums for the collapse of society.

Post of the year, Frustratedmum.

Here here.

Well actually I do think things like community facilities, opportunities (educational /arts/and sporting) and access to good adult mentors is really important.

So do a lot of people, but bear in mind that there is a quite a significant chunk who grew up under Labour and had access to all of those and are now higher ups in these gangs.

It's almost as though it needs an approach at all levels.

Agree with it.
My mother was a victim of this crime. They broke her arm, terrified her of going out and stole her handbag. In her handbag was money, keys and some very special irreplaceable sentimental things. You never quite recover from a crime like this especially if you are older.

I don't know if they were ever caught and if they were what would the punishment be. More fun and less effort than going to work every day. Burglary is another - practically risk free for the perpetrators, devastating for the victims.

I dont agree that the government have "thrown more money at it" though. Since 2008 the youth service in my city (which was never great but it was something) has disappeared as council budgets were cut. And now we are seeing the results.

I dont agree that the government have "thrown more money at it" though. Since 2008 the youth service in my city (which was never great but it was something) has disappeared as council budgets were cut. And now we are seeing the results.

This might be a wooly-headed excuse for the ten-year olds, but what about the fellas in picture upthread a bit?

I completely agree with it. If they don't want to get hurt, don't break the law. Same with people that get hurt when breaking into someone's house. A burglar could be crucified by the home owner for all I care. Don't break the fucking law and you won't get hurt by your victims.

Im sure theres a direct correlation between those who want this policy and Brexit voters

I agree with it, as they aren't just running people over, they are strategically knocking them off. In the footage I've seen no one has been injured and it is effective in stopping the pursuit.

I do worry about pedestrian safety and other car users though - however, having been robbed by a mugger on a moped myself, the speed at which they go is even more dangerous to the public. So I think the police are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I imagine when a mugger does get injured though the police will be in lots of trouble which I think is wholly unfair.

*JustAnotherPoster00' - What? You mean more than 50%? Yes - probably.

This is great - I'm 100% behind the police.

Remainers don’t believe in catching criminals? I’ve heard it all now.

Well they were 10/11/12/13 once Alaskan . And as I said above i have no problem with these tactics, I just also think that we, as a society, should put more effort into crime prevention.

I think when you have been a victim of this sort of crime it is very different from when it is all hypothetical. The consequences of an attack can last a lifetime. These people have to be stopped.

A just and fair society is what we want but it only works by consent. I might say that capital punishment is wrong as a punishment for murder and that a civilized society will have other ways of dealing with crime. But if someone in my village was getting murdered every month or so, often by the same people, I would no longer "consent" to allow the goverment to deal with the situation in that way.

This is the case with burglaries and muggings now. I have been mugged and burgled, (the latter three times). It changes how you think.

It's a good idea. This country is falling apart because the police have had powers taken away from them. Criminals are just laughing at the police nowadays. Things need to change.

Im sure theres a direct correlation between those who want this policy and Brexit voter

Nonsense.