to think that Labour's stance on moped ramming is stupid

[longfingernails]

The Metropolitan Police have been knocking over moped muggers with their cars, and releasing the footage as a deterrent. It's a fantastic idea which has cut moped crime dramatically.

Predictably, the Shadow Home Secretary has said 'it shouldn't be legal for anyone'.

Why is Labour's instinct always to side with the scumbag criminals over the victims, the police and the decent people?

It's horrific police are there to uphold laws not become mob justice themselves.

I how long before the police become a pawn in the mob wars. Why take down another gang yourself when the police will ram them for you. Or that exwife you want out the way.. just declare her moped stolen....

It will escalate. Innocent people will die. Police are meant to be part of the solution not the problem

@flewdog

mobile.twitter.com/MPSCamden/status/1067472996204494850

The police can't win. People complain that the aren't doing enough to stop these violent criminals yet complain when they have a method that works.

Or that exwife you want out the way.. just declare her moped stolen....

Do you think the police are just ramming indiscriminately? Do you not think there's other procedures before it gets to ramming?

It's a specially trained unit. They have been doing it for a year and the moped crime went down from 19k to 12k a year.

These moped theves are armed, EXTREMELY aggressive and dangerous and they were actually using mopeds knowing nothing will happen especially if they had no helmet. Fuck that.

It's not only about "few well off chaps" (that's really ignorant comment IMHO). Victims were from all social classes.

Other option is to not to let specially trained unit NUDGE these scooters, not run over people as someone dramatically put it, let these muggers do whatever the hell they want and watch how the crime raises....

Innocent people with a police car behind them stop. If you chase off then you are either an idiot or probably guilty.

God help us if Labour ever get into power. WTF would happen to our country if they banned police from catching criminals?

Yes what would happen if one bunch of self serving arseholes cut funding so much that that the police couldn't do there job?

It just feels to me like once police have permission to do this it's the tip of the iceberg.

What if it's then used to defend doing this to someone's teenage kid who just happened to be on a moped because some copper is on a power trip? Don't tell me that's never happened. Then said copper uses the 'I thought they were a mugger ' excuse...

I feel extremely uneasy whenever police are given permission to do something that can cause harm to the public - whoever they are - that could also affect innocent bystanders also.

I don't think it's the right way to deal with it. Ok I don't know what the answer is but there will be an outcry when someone is killed. Look at the Henry Hicks case in Islington a few years back where the police were chasing him and he crashed and died.
Moped thieves are scum but I don't see two wrongs making a right.

From a legal point of view it will be interesting to see if one of the moped riders can sue the police if they suffer an injury. Or what the comeback on the officer will be if someone is killed. Would they be charged with causing death by dangerous driving?

Totally agree with this policy. These scum, they are not all ‘children’ they throw acid at people, steal anything they can, stab people,etc

Police numbers need to be massively increased and they need to be more hard on criminals.

Abbot is an idiot, but we know that already ..

What a lot of hysteria. The Met have been actively ramming cars for years as a method of stop and control in a dangerous situation. Moped muggers are killing people, harming them, stealing and getting away with it. The Met have not been given free rein to just any moped off the road. It’s used to stop pursuit of someone endangering the public.

The criminals know exactly how to play the system to get away. If they were being killed the policy would cease. It’s a carefully controlled tactic used by a civilised professional police force. The Met are definitely not squeaky clean...nor is any force, workplace etc but they are fighting significant issues in London. Don’t cuff the people who might save your life

I saw someone "nudged" go right over the top of the hood of a police car.

And I'm meant to find that admirable. That someone who is meant to be the visible symbol of the law is capable of causing that to happen.

But don't worry because its a specially trained unit....

I wonder what kind of person finds themselves capable doing that. I worry about a whole gang of them together with the attitude that breaking the law is ok if it brings down official stats.

Clearly the way to solve knife crime is to arm our police with swords....

The footage and the concept makes me feels very uncomfortable.

But I've just moved from South London and these moped gangs aren't just a load of kids up to mischief. They're violent, usually armed, frankly pretty terrifying. I'm lucky enough not to have been targeted but know several people who have and it's one of the reasons we moved - luckily we had that option. They have absolutely no regard for the police, of course.

Something needs to be done, I'm not completely sure this action is the right one but ignoring it just can't go on imo.

We have laws, courts, parliament. Not the Wild West and modern day lynchings.
You have to catch the criminals first! That's what this does. And to all those bleating that we need more police - unless you're planning to up the numbers so that we have large numbers of police stretched out across every road in the uk so that moped muggers can't get through then you're deluded. What we need is for parents to instil some decency in their kids before they get to the age where they get a moped and think its okay to mug people!

And let's face it. It's not actually going to bring down vicious crime... It's just going to take it off mopeds.

If the police are absolutely certain its not an innocent on the moped then chances are they know where they live who they hang out with etc etc. Id also put money on the fact they've been in (And out of!!!) the criminal justice system already.

Ramming takes the moped crime stats down. That's all it does. It is not going to stop young men who are living their whole lives seeped in crime from being involved in crime.

If justice is about protecting the innocent you need a prosecution and punishment system that reflects it

Not a police force seen to be acting illegally and violently themselves

But yes a few well off chaps get their phones nicked on a night out in Islington and yeeha lets run those fuckers down
A woman in our neighbourhood is a receptionist, her bag was across her body. The moped muggers dragged her around by the bag and she hit her head on the pavement. Then they kicked her. This was in Streatham. This is not about the wealthy having their phones snatched.

Totally support the police on this.

Nope, higher taxes, more coppers. You don’t get a decent society from a 20% tax rate.

Nope, people are already paying enough tax. Throwing other peoples money at a problem very rarely solves it these days. There is an outcry for more police and police to be doing their job (i.e. catching criminals). When they are actually allowed to do this, there is an outcry. They can't win.

To everyone who is against this what exactly do you suggest? They use mopeds because they can evade the police easily on them. If you don't knock them off they escape and are free to terrify more people the next day.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but other than let the bastards off Scot free what are they meant to do?

Absolutely support the police in this, however let's not have the fact that this is a strategy that will be carried out by trained police as a last resort, get in the way of the handwringing ' oh but these violent, aggressive muggers are just 16/17 year old CHILDREN! Poor loves Because it's everyone else's fault isn't it!'

Fund the police properly, then if we still have this situation at that point we can talk about whether an official policy of moped ramming is needed.

Accept that the criminal justice system cannot be about rehabilitation for the time being. Society does nor have tge resources
To rehabilitate. Recognise it needs to be first a foremost about protecting the innocent.

Disproportionately punish seemingly minor crimes.

Let's not kid ourselves that this is the only way to catch youths that chances are the police know as much about them their family and their movements as they do their own.

It's not justice. It's revenge

Moped criminals aren’t thieves, they’re robbers: theft with VIOLENCE. Often against women. Often with blades or acid.

If the police injure or kill a fleeing moped robber and there’s a trial of the officers and I’m on the jury, unless there’s some special reason to find otherwise I’ll acquit.