to think that Labour's stance on moped ramming is stupid

[longfingernails]

The Metropolitan Police have been knocking over moped muggers with their cars, and releasing the footage as a deterrent. It's a fantastic idea which has cut moped crime dramatically.

Predictably, the Shadow Home Secretary has said 'it shouldn't be legal for anyone'.

Why is Labour's instinct always to side with the scumbag criminals over the victims, the police and the decent people?

jasjas Most police officers don’t want to be armed. I do think we should have far more and that taser should be more available.

Missed a bit....I do think we need more AFO’s but frankly who would want to be one?

The point being - if you don't....what's the tactic? You can't chase them on foot so you are effectively giving them free reign to commit crime.

They are criminals and the tactics are both legitimate to stopping the moped, proportionate to the offences which they are committing and necessary to stop the crime.

In my view if you are a criminal, you have no legal protections when it comes to the apprehension during an active crime.

In this day and age non armed police are like having life guards who cannot swim.
As that poor Police officer murdered outside the commons found out, i mean who the fcuk thought putting a un armed copper outside Parliament was a great idea!!! this isn't the 1950's

As much as i believe in prevention via schooling, training, community initiatives, drug rehab etc etc we also have to deal with the immediate effects and daily deterrents, armed officers are one aspect of that.

There is no need for police to be routinely armed. Thankfully police officer murders are rare and generally speaking officer don’t want to be armed. Your personal opinion won’t change that.

Craft1905, you're making things up. Even the police don't claim a 75% drop resulting from this tactic.

Speaking of making things upMiscible, I'm still waiting for the evidence that this tactic is killing suspects please.

There is no need for police to be routinely armed. Thankfully police officer murders are rare and generally speaking officer don’t want to be armed. Your personal opinion won’t change that

My shop is just over the road from a cop shop and attitudes are changing all the time on that

That said I think armed response rather than routine arming is the best system in the world. The more guns knocking about, the more innocent people get dead, regardless of who's carrying them.

Nickynack - this is all MN is, personal opinion! yours included and given your hang an flog em stance, surprising!

You seem to want your cake and eat it!

Its not about Police murders, they are even rarer in Sweden but they still are armed to the teeth.

Craft1905, you're making things up. Even the police don't claim a 75% drop resulting from this tactic.

That's exactly the figure that was quoted on BBC London News on Tuesday. 75% reduction.

By the way, do you now accept that innocent people have killed by these workshy scooter riding scum?

Do you also accept that none of those knocked off have been badly hurt?

easyandy101 Not sure what the relevance of your shop being opposite a police office is?

Does anyone know if there is a policy of evicting moped riders from social housing (not the whole family necessarily but banning moped criminals from living in social housing)? I am sure I read that somewhere. Maybe it applies to anti-social behaviour generally?

jasjas So What is your point then?

There is also the fact that many police officers wouldn’t be approved to carry a firearms so routine arming of the police wouldn’t work across the board.

Craft1905, you're making things up. Even the police don't claim a 75% drop resulting from this tactic.

Yeah. In London the police claim a mere 36% reduction.

Best stop now, I guess, with that abject failure.

StylishMummy Wed 28-Nov-18 23:26:30
I think it's great. One of the fastest growing types of crime and a way to tackle it. Don't want to get rammed off your moped? Don't be a little bastard robbing people using one!

This!! These little cunts deserve all they get imo.

I've seen them driving up and down the A13 with bottles of acid held down by their sides. The sooner they all get their comeuppance, the better.

Haven't read the whole thread but I suspect this will be as devisive as Brexit, with the hard right, brainless on one side and the educated on the other. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In our Brave New World, I'm failing to understand the due process involved in ramming moped riders.

Beyond that, I'm wondering how much the legal compensation for injuries to the people or damage to their vehicles will cost. And there will be cases like that. And there will be incidents where no prosecutions will be made or where there are no convictions. There will also be instances of collateral damage. These feels like a litigation disaster waiting to happen.

I don't know what the appropriate solution is but dropping the right to due process doesn't feel like it's a sustainable remedy nor likely to be consequence-free.

Twisted, I didn't refer to people being killed and maimed by this specific tactic, although even the police admit that there have been injuries resulting from it that have been referred for further investigation.

with the hard right, brainless on one side and the educated on the other

Remarkably insightful

miscible It’s normal procedure for an incident involving injury to a suspect to be referred to the IOPC (I think that’s what it is now in England). It doesn’t necessarily indicate the officers are at fault but the circumstances will be investigated.

And they should be hung out to dry for that, should it ever happen. Just as they should for forcibly arresting a person in any situation for no reason other than their skin colour, clothing etc

The point is that there is an obvious difference between making a mistake in the decision to arrest someone and making a mistake in the use of a dangerous tactic that leads to that person being seriously injured.

I didn't refer to people being killed and maimed by this specific tactic, although even the police admit that there have been injuries resulting from it that have been referred for further investigation.

Minor injuries Miscible. Broken fingers, dislocations, hurt knees. No serious injuries so far. Painful but, unlike the misery inflicted by the little fuckers committing the crimes, nothing life changing and no one killed.

easyandy101 Not sure what the relevance of your shop being opposite a police office is?

Only that I speak to lot's of them and have been surprised over the years to hear a change in attitude amongst rank and file with regards to the routine arming of police.

It used to be way more prevalent that they didn't want it, now that's not so much the case in my experience

I'm still waiting for the evidence that this tactic is killing suspects please

As I didn't say that, it's a strange thing to be waiting for.