to think that Labour's stance on moped ramming is stupid

[longfingernails]

The Metropolitan Police have been knocking over moped muggers with their cars, and releasing the footage as a deterrent. It's a fantastic idea which has cut moped crime dramatically.

Predictably, the Shadow Home Secretary has said 'it shouldn't be legal for anyone'.

Why is Labour's instinct always to side with the scumbag criminals over the victims, the police and the decent people?

How can you be sure they will run off like they did in this video and not stab the police officer or throw acid in their face? Why is it better to put the police and wider public at risk than knock them off their bike?

Same applies if you've rammed them. That's assuming it's just a gentle "nudge"

can you suggest a better way to apprehend a dangerous offender on a moped?

At the actual point an offence happens, I freely admit I can't. Presumably the police are struggling with it too, or hopefully they'd have come up with a more suitable idea

In built up areas it may not even be possible to stop this kind of thing, and I've no doubt the criminals know it - which for me is exactly where getting them before this stage comes in

Miscible you have been shown many links that clearly show the kind of moped gangs that the met police are dealing with aren't going to be unarmed folk who follow the highway code.

Nicknacky, but equally we don't have enough officers in cars to stop the attacks happening. If using motorbikes is an effective tactic, why should the fact that it's not 100% effective mean we shouldn't use it?

Same applies if you've rammed them. That's assuming it's just a gentle "nudge"

No because the police are in their car and have more control of the situation than a high speed chase that could lead anywhere.

The Met regularly deal with people who won't be unarmed folk who abide by the law, TwistedStitch. We don't authorise them to maim them as a standard policing tactic.

Using motorbikes isn’t an effective way of tackling it! You would need at least four bikes for one moped carrying two people. And a protracted chase is more dangerous for everyone involved, including the public.

We will never have enough officers. You would need them on every street if you wanted to prevent all attacks. And even then, they are carrying serious weapons so would be no match for an unarmed officer.

Of course it’s a sensible idea. Somethings got to be done. The current system isn’t working and these fuckers are getting away with it.

I couldn’t care less if they themselves are injured- they shouldn’t have been doing such an atrocious act in the first place.

The moped/bike riders would have had ample opportunity to pull over and stop for the police. There's a simple way for this not to happen, either don't commit a crime and flee on a moped or pull over when the police ask you too. A high speed chase would be far riskier for all if it was allowed to develop.

Ah you appear to be confused miscible, it isn't the criminals being maimed, it's their victims. It's amazing how all of these armchair critics appear to know so much more about effective and safe policing tactics than those who are on the frontline dealing with it. You didn't even appear to know anyone had been murdered by these gangs yet see fit to state the police trying to keep the public safe are wrong.

Its not about having Police on every street corner but deterrent and i can see the deterrent value in knocking them off, its just too extreme.

One thing Police do with illegal off road riding is plain clothed riders and bikes, doesn't need to be very many either.

In cities intel on gangs is essential, i go back again to police cuts and closure of youth centers, they gave Police ideal ways to meet teenagers, find out who is doing what & to whom etc etc.

Its also been identified as a means to limit terrorism.

I work quite closely with our local police off-road motorcycle team who work to stop bikers and quads biking all over green spaces. The containment tactics they use would be in no way appropriate in a built up area with lots of people.

jasjas Off Road bikers aren’t comparable with what we are discussing. Of course you need numbers to apprehend these offenders.

Of course not, i said it was the deterrent effect, illegal riders avoid areas where off road police bikers are about.

Agree with OP on this one. Perhaps Dianne Abbott could get some tips from her other Labour masterpiece, Kate Osamor. I mean they clearly would both have the vested interests of criminals at heart!
Aside from which, we have personal experience of this. DH and his friend who was visiting Uk for a holiday, were both knocked over by two guys on mopeds and DH had his phone snatched, all in broad daylight in the middle of a London. Had to have surgery on his arm due his injury.
What is wrong with this country, is that criminals like this, have been able to get away with crimes like this, for far too long. Ram them all off our streets I say!

jasjas they are not going to be deterred because there are a couple of scooters in the area. They are in possession of weapons

Well, if your correct, only ARV's should be making these stops, as you ve said, few if any riders are injured so could easily turn them on to the unarmd Police as they seek to detain them.

Personally and perhaps you might think rather surprisingly, i'd like to see routine arming of the police, far higher fitness tests and min height requirements.

TwistedStitch, I'm not in the least confused. There have been incidents of people being knocked off scooters being killed and maimed.

As pointed out, the police aren't infallible. It's only a matter of time before they injure someone for the crime of riding a moped whilst black.

jasjas Again, there aren’t enough AFO’s for this. Unarmed officers are sent every single day to incidents involving all kinds of weapons, including firearms.

And no, I’m against routine arming of police

May also cut their numbers.

But the point you made that these thugs are armed, must mean ordinary PO shouldn't be stopping them, after being punted off a bike, they might not be in a good mood!

Miscible can you please share the links where suspects have been killed and maimed by this specific tactic? I understand that there have been deaths of suspects previously through high speed pursuits which this tactic is trying to avoid.

And no, I’m against routine arming of police

why? no other major country doesn't arm its Police, its a ridiculous stance based on Dixon of Dock Green and Policing by consent.... criminals are not very consenting!

As pointed out, the police aren't infallible. It's only a matter of time before they injure someone for the crime of riding a moped whilst black.

And they should be hung out to dry for that, should it ever happen. Just as they should for forcibly arresting a person in any situation for no reason other than their skin colour, clothing etc.

Until there’s good reason to think that this policy of cracking down on violent crime is being abused - in which case I’ll change my mind - it seems entirely right.