To think we need a congestion charge in every major city?

[impossiblecat]

The traffic is getting insane.

It's dangerous and bad for everyone's health.

With the exception of the disabled and people who live within the limits of said congestion zone, obviously.

I'd have all money raised ploughed into public transport.

Manchester had a referendum a few years ago about congestion charges and voted overwhelmingly against it.

There's a danger that the people most affected wouldn't be able to vote ...

London has a very well established public transport network. I can’t think of any other city in this country that comes close to it.

Or, world, really ...

Personally if it were up to me all new car sales would have to be electric now not in 20 years or whatever bollocks the plan is. Obviously combined with an infrastructure project to make sure there's enough charging points throughout the country.

Agreed you cant use london as an example. It has an amaizng cycle neteork, tube, overground, DLR, night buses, water taxis etc.

Name me a city in the uk that has that kind of infrastructure,

Obviously combined with an infrastructure project to make sure there's enough charging points throughout the country.

I think you've just hit on the problem ... this country doesn't do infrastructure. Look at HS2 for proof.

So we give in and choke? Sod that.

I don't live in London and we have a dam good public transport network. Most large, regional centres actually do.

If you live rurally, ask your local councillors to do something. A congestion charge in your nearest big city would increase demand for public transport and actually help improve it for you.

We need to get as many cars as possible off the road as soon as possible. Good public transport and more homeworking can be the carrots, congestion charge would be the stick.

Nope. The CC charge in London is just a tax. I don't think it has significantly reduced the traffic in the zone. When it first came in traffic was lighter for a couple of months then all back to normal.

This thread shows that actually most large city centres don’t and if these city centres can’t even have reliable links to the local towns then those further out really are stuffed.

Your look at it from the wrong angle and focusing onlh on the tip of the iceberg without having any real thought of what is below that.

We need to get as many cars as possible off the road as soon as possible.

And how will you replace all the jobs that rely on making and selling cars ? Why do you think there's so much pushback and public transport is so crap generally ? The better it is, the less people need cars.

we have a dam good public transport network. Most large, regional centres actually do.

In 20 years of living in Birmingham, through a variety of jobs all over the region, never once has there been any upside to trying to use public transport. Quite aside from the cost, the extra journey time would have made it impractical.

How did we replace all the jobs breeding and selling horses?

As I suggested upthread, a better approach might be to ask why so many people are needing to drive in every day - especially at the same time ? If you lost 5% of traffic, you'd cut congestion by a lot more.

How did we replace all the jobs breeding and selling horses?

By fixing and selling cars. Almost all village blacksmiths became motor repair garages overnight. Coachbuilders just made car bodies instead. There's some wonderful old pictures of the assembly line at Longbridge where you can't see if they are building horse-drawn coaches or cars - they look almost identical.

Haha nope.

I already avoid town centre like the plague add a charge and I would never go at all. Ok good for the environment not so good for the shops there as I’m sure I’m not the only one.
More and more sections of cities now are having their own mini centres anyway.

Exactly, Rosetti!

It's not the environment that's my main concern- it's the damage it does to the lungs of the people in the city. That includes the people driving the cars.

How can people not care about that amazes me.

But hey, you got 15 minutes longer in front of the tele. Sod lung function.

It’s not about people not caring. But I don’t think spending two hours on an ancient bus doing a trip that cokld be done in half an hour will do much good for people’s lungs

45 min on a tram, underground or light railway will.

A congestion charge can pay for these things. Good old, polluter pays principle.

But not one of them links anywhere close to where I live or likely will in my lifetime!

How long would we need the congestion charge before anything actually changed because without infrastructure all a congestion charge will do is kill businesses and isolated vulnerable people

It's not the environment that's my main concern- it's the damage it does to the lungs of the people in the city. That includes the people driving the cars.

At my age, I just look at things with the "if it mattered" filter on my noggin. If it mattered, then government would be moving heaven and earth to make the necessary changes. However, to my eyes, all I see are policies and decisions which not only do not reduce traffic, but actively encourage it. So it's at this point I stop listening to a word these people say, and just watch what they do. Which can be two very different things.

Holy crap! You seriously think Swansea needs a congestion charge???
So anyone living in half of the city and grower will pay it every single day? Those of us living this side can't get to one of the major hospitals. One half of the university is one side and the other one tech other side.

Seriously? It makes no sense and for what reason I don't know. Yes Swansea can get a bit busy at certain times, but nothing compared to many and it's more to do with city layout, roadworks etc than volume of traffic. Swansea city centre is already dead, I went there on Black Friday (not for the sales) and it was so quiet. Everyone goes out of town.

Absolutely bizarre you think Swansea needs one.

I also just don't agree with the idea either. London is a whole other ball games, but a small city like Swansea would kill it.

No one could visit Gower or the beaches without paying a congestion charge.

We do have crap road layouts, but it is what it is and it can't really be changed, changing people would kill it.

It matters if it's a vote winner or, will encourage heafty donations to the party.

And how long will the congestion charge be in place before the public transport improves?

My nearest big city is about 90 minutes away. At the moment (on public transport) it takes over two hours with changes - there is no Sunday or late evening service and with the recent strikes there wasn't even a Saturday service.

By car it's about an hour. I can come and go when I choose and parking costs less than the price of a single day return. Even with the congestion charge it would be cheaper to drive, especially if there's more than one person travelling.

Why would anyone pick public transport in that situation?

Sorry, that should read 60 miles.

I live in the CC zone in London. I lived here before the introduction.
At first, it was great. It did reduce traffic and there were actual spaces on the street for residents to park.
Now? Traffic has crept back up and once again parking is a nightmare. Plus as a resident in the zone, there are huge discounts. So again defeats the purpose.

I think we need to go a step further and ban cars from cities and town centres..

City centres are not dying - shops are very popular in Liverpool and Manchester, because they have good public transport and are pedestrianised, therefore are pleasant to be in. Smaller town centres are dying because too many cars make them horrible so no one wants to go there. Research shows that cyclists spend 40% more money in town centres than drivers. Make towns quiet, safe, and cycle friendly, and shoppers will return.

The demand needs to be there for public transport to improve, otherwise who is going to pay for it? Therefore the congestion charge or car ban has to come before the improved transport, unfortunately. However the safe cycle facility can come before the car ban.