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AIBU?

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To think we need a congestion charge in every major city?

354 replies

impossiblecat · 27/11/2018 14:13

The traffic is getting insane.

It's dangerous and bad for everyone's health.

With the exception of the disabled and people who live within the limits of said congestion zone, obviously.

I'd have all money raised ploughed into public transport.

OP posts:
AtlasShrugged · 29/11/2018 10:23

I bet you OP is currently a university student that's never had a proper job.

UserX · 29/11/2018 11:10

Some people also have disabilities, so unfortunately ‘don’t have choices’

But what if everyone who DOES have a choice uses it responsibly? How many car journeys could be saved? My colleague lives a few blocks from me & drives in every day. There is good public transport & I use it every day. He has a choice, he chooses to drive.

I can’t understand why people are arguing so vehemently AGAINST fewer cars on the road and lower pollution levels. Can someone explain?

DGRossetti · 29/11/2018 11:17

But what if everyone who DOES have a choice uses it responsibly?

Aye, there's the rub ....

Tinderb0x · 29/11/2018 11:18

Read the thread, countless people have explained.

DGRossetti · 29/11/2018 11:19

I can’t understand why people are arguing so vehemently AGAINST fewer cars on the road and lower pollution levels.

Not quite sure that's what's happening ..

Can someone explain?

I think it's more a case that people feel that pay enough as things are, and are pointing out that trying to squeeze the stone further is just going to hurt the more vulnerable in society.

Sirzy · 29/11/2018 11:21

I walk when I can.

I rarely use public transport because where I live it’s shit and not worth the hassle. If I go somewhere with a decent public transport system (and disabled access to said system!) then I will use it

adaline · 29/11/2018 11:38

Believe me, if I had access to decent public transport (affordable and on time) I would use it. I hate driving home from work in winter - it's dark and dangerous but it's the only option for me, so I suck it up and do it. If I could leave work, walk to the bus stop/train station and be home in an hour with no effort from me, believe me, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be fewer cars on the roads, but they are saying don't criticise people for driving when there is literally no other option!

UserX · 29/11/2018 12:09

Read the thread, countless people have explained.

I have read the whole thread, all I can see is a whole lot of whataboutery and heel digging.

We’ve come to a point where people are dying from air pollution. Why would you not want to do something about it, even if it’s just to work from home 1 day a week or get your groceries delivered? You CAN do something, there’s no need to feel so powerless.

barleycorn · 29/11/2018 13:36

I’ve just read some interesting stuff about bus routes and how they are decided here, and the case for bus regulation, as happens in London (apologies, it’s about Manchester but I’m sure it applies to many cities).

Here

masterandmargarita · 29/11/2018 13:52

Apart from disability and in some cases, extreme poverty, yes there is nearly always a point in your life where you've made a choice that has had an impact on how you live now. Ultimately you have to take responsibility for your own actions, you can't always blame 'the system', shrug your shoulders and say it's not my fault.

Tinderb0x · 29/11/2018 13:52

Not everybody can work from home. I can’t.Confused Re groceries Lidl doesn’t deliver and I shop on my way home from work. Don’t want to pay for an unnecessary delivery journey thanks.

adaline · 29/11/2018 14:08

Apart from disability and in some cases, extreme poverty, yes there is nearly always a point in your life where you've made a choice that has had an impact on how you live now.

Well yeah, of course there is. But not everyone has a choice between, say, city and country, or town A (no transport) and town B (plenty of transport).

Towns and cities with good infrastructure, plenty of public transport and good access to schools come with a price tag that lots of ordinary working families can't afford. They're not necessarily in poverty, they just can't afford the cost of rent or a mortgage in those places.

We earn over 30k between us. We're certainly not in poverty but equally we couldn't afford to live in the town I work in, at least, not without moving into a rented studio flat above a shop. Not that there's anything wrong with making that choice, but it's hardly practical choice for a young family, especially when you can buy a two/three bedroomed house with a garden for less money nearby.

Families with young children need to live in affordable places, close to schools and with decent childcare. To afford that, lots of people have no choice but to move out of the cities and big towns and into rural areas, and unfortunately the price of that is having to drive everywhere. That's not their fault, it's the government's fault for not putting decent public transport links in place.

Or do you think money just comes out of thin air and people choose to live rurally or in places with no transport for shits and giggles?

doubleshotespresso · 29/11/2018 14:26

Or do you think money just comes out of thin air and people choose to live rurally or in places with no transport for shits and giggles?

It does read OP as if you are existing within some blissfully detached from reality type of bubble, there have been some very valid, positive queries and suggestions on this thread, but your statements and tone are surprisingly lacking in practicality or any understanding of how a vast amount of people have to live these days.

masterandmargarita · 29/11/2018 15:27

Lots of people choose to live rurally because they don't like city life.

JacquesHammer · 29/11/2018 15:31

Lots of people choose to live rurally because they don't like city life

We chose to live semi-rurally because of the proximity to a rail station, meaning we didn’t need to use the car.

In 10 years the service has got so appalling that unless you’re doing a mundane journey with no mitigating factors (not rush hour, no time constraints, no onward connection) it’s just not worth the risk.

user1499173618 · 29/11/2018 15:36

A congestion charge operates on the underlying hypothesis that it will deter people from unnecessary car journeys. IMO not many people indulge in car journeys for no purpose.

MrMeSeeks · 29/11/2018 15:37

have read the whole thread, all I can see is a whole lot of whataboutery and heel digginG

Reslly? Ive seen people say how bad public transport is amd how they can't rely on it.
I certainly cant, or do you think 6 buses for an hour journey ( tops) by car is ok?
It used to be 4 until they decided to take even more buses off.

masterandmargarita · 29/11/2018 15:38

So basically the individual is never to blame, just big bad government policy Hmm

adaline · 29/11/2018 15:48

Lots of people choose to live rurally because they don't like city life.

Well, yes, of course they do. But that doesn't mean that's the same for everyone.

You can't seriously sit there and say that everyone in the country has access to decent public transport, and that if they choose to live rurally, it's because they could afford city life, they just don't want to Hmm

user1499173618 · 29/11/2018 15:52

masterandmargarita - yes. People live the lives that government policy maps out for them. That’s why they are overweight, malnourished and lead sedentary lives by design of government and corporations.

masterandmargarita · 29/11/2018 15:53

No, but at some point you have to take even a modicum of responsibility for your life choices. You can't, to quote shaggy, always say 'it wasn't me'

masterandmargarita · 29/11/2018 15:54

Yes user149

TitOfTheIceberg · 29/11/2018 15:55

I think at some level everyone probably agrees that something needs to be done about pollution and congestion - where the conflict comes in is that if it's all stick with no carrot, it will be yet again the poorest and the 'squeezed middle' bearing the brunt of successive governments' lack of investment in infrastructure and services. The OP can shout as much as she likes that poverty doesn't exist in commuter belts and outlying areas of the cities she mentions (one of which is not large by any definition) but I've lived in / around two of them and know for a fact it does. It's easy to say "work from home and get your shopping delivered" but WFH is something allowed (or not) by an employer, not something the employee can simply demand, and plenty of us are making ends meet by shopping at the bargain basement end of the supermarkets at the likes of Lidl, Aldi, Heron Foods etc - none of which deliver. I don't know about the buses where the OP lives, but the services here have nowhere to put shopping bags; the newer style buses have more seats where the spot for bags or cases used to be.

It's also easy to say "well you chose to live where you do (so tough shit, pay up)" but housing choices aren't made in a vacuum. I live where I do because my parents are elderly and need additional support, so I've moved to be closer to them. I'm lucky that three days a week I can commute by public transport (at £5 a pop), but the other two days when I work at a different site, I simply can't. My disabled DH can't get to one of the hospitals he has to attend on public transport - so the likelihood is many of the workers can't either. I'm driving around in a 12yo car because I can't afford anything newer or more energy efficient, and if anything went wrong which meant it wasn't economically viable to fix, I'd have to replace it with something that cost max £1k, which is not going to include anything Cat 6 or electric. Bangernomics is a reality for some of us.

We need an ideological shift in both company culture where staff COULD work from home, and substantial investment in public transport infrastructure. It's not fair to penalise the general populace for being dependent on their cars when in many cases it's decades of policies and underfunding that have made us so, because the alternatives have gradually disappeared - if they were ever there in the first place.

adaline · 29/11/2018 15:55

No, but at some point you have to take even a modicum of responsibility for your life choices.

Fine, so where are all these houses in good locations going to come from? What about schools for our children, openings at dental surgeries and GP practises?

You seem to have a very idealised view of life. Yes, it would be great if everyone could go to work by public transport and we all lived 100m from a school but how on earth is that going to happen, really? Not everyone can do jobs that enable them to afford expensive houses in the city - we're always going to need carers, nurses, shop assistants and cleaners. They're never going to earn huge amounts of money, but guess what, their work is still just as valuable to society and they still have to live somewhere!

user1499173618 · 29/11/2018 15:58

Government policy on schools is crazy. Education needs to be returned to LA control and children need to be sent to their nearest school, preferably one they can walk to.

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