to think that all GP's (Doctors) work part-time?

[popcornwizard]

Based on my tiny personal knowledge of 4 GP's that are friends, and a couple of others that are friends of friends etc, I'm coming to the conclusion that they all work part-time hours. Is this real? Or is it just the ones that I know. I have no idea whether any of the GP's at 'my' practice work full-time or not, but at least 3 of them work only two days/week.

So AIBU to think that they're a bunch of part-timers? And what causes this? Stress or lucrative locum contracts?

walking I'd love to understand how you propose to address basic maths. Not enough Drs entering the profession - please do enlighten us how you'll fix that issue. We're all ears.

bananafish I would simply train more doctors. There isn't a shortage of highly intelligent students wanting to train as doctors. With the simple condition that when qualified you work on an NHS contract for x number of years, or you pay back the cost of your training.

@Walkingdeadfangirl

Where are you getting all this fabricated crap from? It’s just imaginary, based on nothing

I would simply train more doctors. There isn't a shortage of highly intelligent students wanting to train as doctors. With the simple condition that when qualified you work on an NHS contract for x number of years, or you pay back the cost of your training.

Actually, there is a shortage, this is why there is a recruiting crisis. It won't be solved by bullying people to work to rule regardless of their health.

I have medics in the family. One is a GP
They work PT, which is 35 hours a week.
That’s vs the 65 she did FT. In 5 days.
They have a significant amount of work behind three scenes,
It is possible to to 2 days, but less likely to get that outright, would usually be involved in the practise management and Trust work too

PookieDo Seriously, its fabricated crap that an employer should expect you to work for them after spending a fortune training you?

I really wonder how the NHS ended up with this idiotic system where GPs are self employed! Maybe we should make all public servants self employed ... the police, the fire brigade, maybe ambulance drivers? Let them all work when they want.

dontalltalkatonce Its not bullying for your employers to have a contract of employment stating your hours of work etc. Pretty much every job does it. You still have rights/rules for retirement, holidays, illness, leaving your contract etc

I agree there is a recruitment problem, as here is in teaching and other sectors. I dont think the status quo is the answer.

@Walkingdeadfangirl

Please present to me how much it is costing the NHS in cold hard facts and figures to train doctors. Do not forget to add on the unpaid hours doctors work. And do not forget to take off the thousands that doctors pay back in tutition fees

Otherwise just stop posting. You are really ill informed

I would simply train more doctors. There isn't a shortage of highly intelligent students wanting to train as doctors. With the simple condition that when qualified you work on an NHS contract for x number of years, or you pay back the cost of your training.

Great. More Drs being trained - given the numbers of medical school places has been increased by 25% but the number of foundation training jobs hasn't, so there's not enough F1 and F2 positions for students to be employed after graduation, more medical school places will just mean more unemployed Drs.

And even if you were to do that, how is training more Drs going to solve the problem if fewer Drs choose general practice?

In your miracle plan, how is making general practice even less desirable going to increase the number of GPs?

My GP mates who are struggling with unfilled vacancies in their practices will be delighted to have the problem fixed!

Nearly every GP surgery is missing a doctor, warns Royal College of General Practitioners

One in six positions are now unfilled which is placing an ‘intolerable pressure’ on services, doctors groups have warned.

GPs reported that inability to recruit and funding shortages have also forced many practices to cut GP positions, relying on non-GP staff and forcing practices to close patient lists.

Workload in general practice has risen by at least 16% over the last seven years, but the proportion of NHS spending on general practice remains lower than a decade ago and GP numbers have not kept pace with demand.

But you think highly restrictive contracts in high-stress professions are . Okay.

bananafish, obviously you dont know how a supply and demand market works. If we have more doctors but the only relevant jobs are on offer are in a GP surgery then you will fill the places. Just like every other job in the world.

dontalltalkatonce, I dont think asking a doctor to work for the company that spent a fortune training them is a highly restrictive condition. And even if it was I still think you would have oversubscribed medical schools.

I'm not a doctor, I'm a vet. I work full time, but the job has changed massively since I qualified 24 years ago, and I imagine it is the same for GPs.

We have the same recruiting issues in vet. A recent study showed 37% were actively looking to leave the profession. Some of the people who apply for A medical or vet degree have no intention of ever becoming a GP.

Why? People in general are much more demanding nowadays. You spend half your time signing forms to make sure you have covered your ass. The paperwork has become ridiculous.

Two part time practitioners are probably better than one burnt out exhausted full time practicioner. I can totally understand why GPs, whose full time hours might be 60+ hours, would prefer to work a part time 35 hours (like the rest of the public) So I think YABU for moaning about it

Our 4 gps work part time in the nhs health centre and part time in their private practice. They rotate to do they all have cover but there is more money in the private practice obviously.
They seem to do very long shifts regardless of where they are though.

It's very sad to hear about the suicides of GPs.

I don't blame anyone for going part time if their role permits it. It does have an impact on everyone though as it means you need to train twice as many.

There isn't a shortage of people who want to be medics, getting a place in a medical school is fiercely competitive and many bright people who apply won't get a place.

The silly situation we have (apart from not just training more, with a lock in period that obliges medics trained by the NHS to then work for the NHS for X number of years - not ridiculous, private companies do this all the time when they fund MBAs for instance) is that medical school places aren't allocated by role - ie you should apply for a place to train to be a GP (if that's where there is a shortage), rather than the student choosing a few years down the line.

When the state pays thousands for training, it needs to then get the specialisms they need in return. Again, any private companies train grads for a role, you don't just employ grads and then let them all pick the most popular job leaving the less popular jobs with no one doing them.

SIL works 3 days a week. Equivalent to 36 hours. In by 7am, rarely leaves by 7pm. She also has to do on call.

She has a young family. Doesn't see the children in her working week. Hence the part time hours.

you should apply for a place to train to be a GP (if that's where there is a shortage), rather than the student choosing a few years down the line.

most medical students have no idea what sort of doctor they will end up as - it isn't free choice, it's how your skills develop.

The number of people in this thread who have no idea what they are talking about 🤦‍♂️

I have to go now as I'm a doctor going to work. To get started on my 48 hours this week. God forbid I let slip that I'm part time and, yes, still doing 48 hours this week. I am clearly such a slacker and should be paying back the NHS with the grand total of £1450 a month I take home.🖕🏻

The silly situation we have (apart from not just training more, with a lock in period that obliges medics trained by the NHS to then work for the NHS for X number of years - not ridiculous, private companies do this all the time when they fund MBAs for instance) is that medical school places aren't allocated by role - ie you should apply for a place to train to be a GP (if that's where there is a shortage), rather than the student choosing a few years down the line.

Will this be for general practice or all specialisms?

The recruitment crisis for psychiatry is even greater than that for GPs, will students have to apply for any position specifically into any medical or surgical specialty?

Asking 18 yo to apply to medical school and choose before they've started training whether they want to work in general practice or psychiatry or neurology or emergency medicine or radiology or ObGyn seems tricky when
A) the student has had no experience at 18 to know which speciality will best suit them
B) the clinicians of a given specialty have no basis on which to select 18 yo to know whether they have the right skills for that speciality

You do realise that the new medical school places have a lock in, I assume?. How is what you're proposing in terms of lock in different to what's currently planned for the additional 1500 places? (Apart from not being locked in by specialty)

When the state pays thousands for training, it needs to then get the specialisms they need in return. Again, any private companies train grads for a role, you don't just employ grads and then let them all pick the most popular job leaving the less popular jobs with no one doing them.

How many people come out of training programmes with private companies with £70,000 debt? Would people being trained for private companies have to pay for all their own exams and professional memberships/indemnities? It can't work both ways.

Plus if you force people to choose the career that will have for the rest of their lives at age 18 then you will have even more leaving the profession. How many people can decide at age 18 what they want the rest of their entire professional life to look like with no real knowledge or insight into that particular career.

Maybe if patients were more pleasant, more GPs would be happy to stay in their job/ work full time.

I'm not joking, the public are horrible nowadays - more demanding, have googled everything, so very entitled. I really feel for GPs.

Also just FYI the Armed Forces fund some doctors to train in return for a guaranteed period of service. These places are highly competitive as the training is fully funded and also there is more emphasis on training and less on service provision. If al doctors could be trained in this way then most would probably happily give a period of guaranteed service. Again, it can't just be a one sided slave to the state type situation - there has to be a quid pro quo - otherwise why would anyone do it?!

11orangeapple don’t take it personally.
Most people are a bit brighter than some of the absolute idiots on this thread who would work all gps to death (probably along with the rest of nhs staff) then have the gall to complain when their is no one to treat their nearest and dearest.

I say this, but then again people do keep voting in the tories....

I'm intrigued by all these "private" GPs. Private GPs are uncommon, very few GPs combine NHS and private work (single figures?!) Yet several people on this thread know some.

Walking, you asked how we got to doctors being self employed. They refused to join the new national health service unless they could retain their self employed status and I don't blame them. I am self employed. It is a totally different life and way of operating to being someone's employee. That has always been the deal - GPs are prepared to work in the NHS as long as they can be self employed. They signed up on that basis. (My uncle studied medicine in 1936 so was pre NHS although my father, his younger brother, was there just after it started)

The majority posting here have no idea what they are talking about - try being a GP (or being married to one). Being a GP is no longer a popular profession; the hours are horrendous, the training never ending, constant shortages of staff, huge annual fees for professional registration and indemnity insurance and very poor pay. Waiting times for appointments will get worse - I imagine a month will become standard. I’m just glad that at the age of 53 my DH who has been a brilliant GP almost all his working life, now has the opportunity to leave.