DH’s working hours/lonely evenings/me not wanting a nanny

[crazytiredboth]

(Apologies in advance that this is so long. I’m upset and don’t speak to adults very often!)

I am a SAHM to 1 year old twins. Have never had formal childcare help. Closest family three hours away. Husband works abroad at least a few days each week and works long hours if he’s in the country. I am generally happy being on my own at home with DTs but I am of course lonely and exhausted. (They’ve always been good sleepers so I don’t have overnight issues to contend with but they’re full on in the day).

DH normal day if in UK is out the door by 0700 not home til 2100, often working later in office and always still working from his phone if he is at home. Often has to dial into conference calls from bed. (He works across multiple time zones). Holidays get cancelled days before we go because of deals that have to be worked on, so have given up ever trying to book to go away. He is one of those ambitious types who thrives on pressure and is financially very well rewarded - he thinks this makes it ok and is why he does it. I would disagree as think quality of life is lacking but he has worked this hard his entire working life, it’s not new. The difference is he can’t have weekends to do as he pleases now. There’s an element of “you know what you signed up for when you married me”. (I see his point, but I didn’t know I would have two children at once).

We have argued all weekend, the classic competitive tiredness type bullshit and “I’m doing all this for you!” one liners. I don’t earn because I have chosen to raise our DTs at home so yes, he is paying for everything. I would gladly live somewhere cheaper/smaller though (and have said many times) I’m not out and about spending his money frivolously. Financially he does not need to work at the level he does - it’s a choice he makes because he wants to save to retire young and for our children to be well provided for. (Which I totally appreciate is his choice to make and I am grateful for - though it may not seem it ).

I often dread weekends because I am so used to it being just me and DC then he comes along and wants (and needs) to relax a bit but guess what? You can’t with two toddlers around. (Cue him being nasty and me being petty with “welcome to my life” type comments which obviously don’t help).

Fuck that’s a long backstory but basically, any argument descends into him saying I HAVE to get a nanny and that this would solve all our problems. I fundamentally don’t want one (I know good ones exist, I know lots of people love theirs, but I don’t work and the idea of having a nanny as a SAHM feels bonkers to me). I could get a part time job to justify (to myself) having a nanny but it seems crazy when I desperately want to be with my children while they are young. We don’t need the money me working would provide.

Part time nursery is an option I suppose but I’m concerned about illnesses as they were born prem and get ill constantly WITHOUT nursery, so can’t imagine it with. One or other is ill most of the time so I imagine myself in a ridiculous situation where I will be paying for both to go but one will be at home with me on any given day, defeating the object of me getting a break.

I’ve struggled to make local “mum friends”, at first because it was nigh on impossible to get out with DTs but latterly because I live somewhere where everyone seems to have a nanny and it’s the nanny that goes to the park/classes where I would meet people.

I miss DH. His working hours were always this bad but pre-kids we could make it seem ok...I’d meet him for dinner at 9 in town (we’re in central London, so not as bonkers as I appreciate it sounds reading this back) and weekends we could both just chill in bed. Used to eat out a lot and go to nice places (I.e feel like the working hard was worth it because we got to enjoy “fancy things”) but now I’m stuck at home of course.

I don’t feel like childcare is the issue and that a nanny would help, I feel like my issues are being lonely (every evening on your own is maddening with time) and feeling like I want to spend time as a four and that it’s not possible. This weekend I’ve had a bit of a break where he’s sent me to bed/out for coffee but it’s always been off the back of an argument and has meant I’ve just spent EVEN MORE time on my own. As soon as I come back he has to have a sleep himself. Tag team parenting. So great, another weekend where we haven’t been able to spend any time together - all under the guise of “doing me a favour” and therefore I can’t complain.

I don’t even know what my AIBU is really. I’m just upset and miss him. Contrary to this long whinge-fest we do actually really get on and love each other. Hopefully not past tense!!!!

I suppose it’s AIBU for thinking a nanny wouldn’t solve our problems? I don’t want a stranger raising our children when I don’t even work. Maybe I’m just an ungrateful cow? Maybe I’m depressed? Although I only get this upset when he is around and not helping. M-F I just get on with everything relatively happily.

Is it just one of those things that gets better as DC get older?! I’m aware his working hours are unusual but hopefully someone can relate?! Maybe no matter what your childcare set-up is the first few years of parenthood are just really bloody hard on any relationship?

(I also know we are VERY lucky to be in a financial position where I don’t have to work, but it’s still hard raising two babies completely on your own. Hopefully this essay doesn’t come across as massively out of touch and offensive. I know things could be a lot worse. Spending night after night on your own just messes with your head)

I do know what you are going through- this was me 14 years ago. (Though I had 2 in 23 months and gave up work after the second rather twins)

I did all these suggestions. I created a life for myself, I bought in childcare, I got involved in the community. I had a lovely life. And as intended my husband worked his bollocks off and “retired” at 48.

And rather than everything being wonderful, we hated each other. We had nothing in common anymore. Zero connection. 14 years of living not as a couple with shared lives and dreams but as a workaholic and well paid housekeeper/nanny/whore had destroyed and love we’d ever had.

2 years on I’m divorced, rich and incredibly happy having found a man who actually loves me rather than just provides for me.

If you do love him, find out now if he loves you by making him change and take part in your and your children’s lives. Because of he’s not prepared to do it now, he won’t in the future.

I think some posters are naive about (a) what it takes to do some jobs and (b) the impact of having a non engaged father as a blueprint does to these types of setups. Very hard to overcome either. I remember posting on MN a year ago with a version of this (back at work, dh with equally demanding job but boarded from 7 and just had different expectations) and some posters were less than helpful on both those issues. The key for me was remembering that neither of us was “right” or “wrong” we just had different expectations - so we needed to be able to reconcile them.

Good luck OP. Sounds like you’ve got yourself lots to think about. And just wanted to say not to discount central london friends (sahms, mums or nannies) - I’ve got a great group of “mum friends” despite being a working mum and it makes a huge difference!

I hope you've had an epiphany. It is hard to make friends. I'm giving advice I might not follow but do things that you may not even like to meet new friends. e.g Book clubs.

I would love to be on a position where money doesn't seem to matter. It's just a shame you both aren't enjoying it fully.

Build a life without him, why wouldn't you. It might feel a bit sad but make your situation work for you. He seems to like what he does i.e. Work. You make it work for you or just sit around waiting for him.

Good grief, woman, get yourself some help with the twins and get out there and make some friends.

In the nicest way possible, no one will thank you for martyring yourself. This is not a cop out. One year old twins is about as hard as it gets (short of triplets).

@crazytiredboth I agree that London is a hard place to make mum friends. I'm the first of my friends to have a baby (DS is also now 1) and many of the mum friends I made when DS was newborn have now either moved away or returned to work. I WFH (sort of ) and DP is also out 7-6 each day so I'm also quite lonely during the days and haven't made any good mum friends.

A babysitter a few nights a week definitely sounds like the best option for you.

I can give the perspective from a child’s point of view as my dad was a banker & most days I barely saw him as he had left before we got up & arrived after we were in bed. He was a great dad & very hands on when around though. My mum was incredibly lonely after she had me (parents are immigrants so no family) & really struggled. She started to go to baby groups & made friends that way. Admittedly more mums were stay at home then. She couldn’t work as too difficult with 3 of us and dad abroad a lot but she did get au pairs & cleaners, gardeners, etc. As we got older & I started school she put my younger siblings into occasional childcare & did lots of courses, professional development etc. She made her own life & then eventually returned to part time work. My parents did end up separating though as my dads work came first & I think the resentment built up. We all get on well but I knew I would never marry a workaholic! We were lucky enough to have a house in the South of France & spent all summer there but my favourite childhood memories involve all of us together so I would have been just as happy camping. Appreciate it now with the cost of summer holidays!

Please don’t feel bad about getting help, I had lots of help with DC1 when on maternity leave. Looking after young kids is hard!

It’s a strange one isn’t it @gimbleinthewabe (GREAT username btw) and friends outside London don’t seem to get it. Four of the six couples in my NCT group had left London by the time our DC were six months old. I know it will get easier - people whose kids go to school here obviously live here and plan to stay here! - but the vast majority of people I’ve met with babies have no intention of staying long.

And that’s a really interesting perspective @cantfocus1 - thanks for sharing. My dad was always around - often home from work before my mum - so the set-up I’m raising my DC in is so different to what I was brought up in. Not that that matters of course, but it’s an adjustment doing something so alien to your own upbringing.

Where are you looking at moving too? I’m in SW London with my mum around the corner (not ventured far) & have a great local community with lots of school mum friends. No plans to ever leave London although I would like more space!
I work pt in a new career, ideally in the future I will earn a bit more so both of us could work pt. Interestingly 2 of our friends have left their jobs in the city to become self employed as they don’t want to be chained to the desk anymore.

Thanks @crazytiredboth, I don't know if anyone else has got my username before! Or they just think I'm really lame. I have PMd you btw.

We didn't do NCT (bloody expensive!) but I was lucky to make a friend on my antenatal course when we randomly reconnected on MN. She's moved to the other side of London now though so it's hard to physically meet up. 4 out of 6 couples is a pretty outstanding stat though! It's a wonder they paid for the course if they knew they'd be leaving. I know there's a few twin Mum groups/meet ups though which might interest you?

DP is from London originally and we want to live here as long as we can afford to (bloody brexit). I actually live in a very family friendly area of London but still haven't really clicked with anyone. I'm a relatively young mum (27) so I don't know if that makes a difference, though I don't see that it should.

Seriously go on child maintenance option and use the calculator. You could end up better off financially

This man loves his job, doesn't sound like he loves much else

OP, it's definitely not just you - we're one of the couples who moved out of London to make a family life, and most of our friends have done the same. Those who've stayed have definitely found it hard - people in their thirties who stay in London mostly seem to be wedded to their job - those who want to be sahms move out.

Most people have some basic level of childcare help whether it’s through partner/family/paid help - it doesn’t mean you’re not coping. It’s normal. And necessary!

This is so true. You matter and so does your marriage. Good luck.

Part-time childcare to allow you to a) spend time with DH as a couple; b) do boring things without constant company (hairdressers, doctors, even supermarket...); and c) do interesting, stimulating adult things for you as an independent adult

I don't understand why it's difficult to make friends if you have kids - where ever you live. You have a ready made commonality.

I don't understand why it's difficult to make friends if you have kids - where ever you live. You have a ready made commonality.

Because in central London housing is ridiculously expensive. So parents generally either both work, or they move somewhere cheaper so one of them can be a sahp.

Tbh, even if they both work, they often move out anyway so as to be able to afford somewhere with a nice garden, more space etc. As OP says she and her husband were planning to do.

Communities in central London are also very fluid - I have a friend in a similar situation to OP who said every time she managed to make a mum friend, her friend would announce that her DP had been posted to Hong Kong and she'd have to start again.

And yes, OP can of course talk to nannies and au pairs, but they will generally want to hang out with other nannies, and the communality won't really be there - nannies have overlapping but fundamentally different concerns to mothers.

Get a nanny for the weekends. This way your partner gets to relax and you guys get to spend time together. You can still spend time with the children. For example. Family morning and lunch. Nanny for afternoon so you and DH can relax, go to movies, shop, talk walks, dinner together etc.

It is very easy to make friends once your children have started nursery or school.

I'm an expat and my entire London (SW) network is built around my kids' school - mind you, they both went to the same one and I'm in my 12th (and last! sob) year, so not entirely surprising.

I also made a lot of friends through the dog park.

I don’t feel like a rented womb or that I want a divorce (!) we just both want better balance.

I'm not sure that's true, OP. You may want a better balance, but it sounds like he's got his life set-up just the way he wants and has no intention of changing it.

Has his life actually changed in any meaningful way since he's had twins?

My DH has a job that sounds very similar BUT we live near my family and so I have a life line (my mum comes over one morning a week so I can get some time to myself and she babysits every now and again so we can go out). I also went back to work very part time to give me some of my own life.
Having children is lonely, I think. Even going to a group and having a chat is fine but, then what? I used to message my husband inane stuff all day and get frustrated that i would get a one line reply, if that.
Anyway, what also helps me is that when DH is away for a week or so I generally ship out to my in laws for a few days - it gives them time with the children and me a bit of a breather - Just not being the one to decide what we are all going to have for dinner is a break

Oh OP, I feel for you. I’m a zone 2 mum. Come and move HERE, it’s lovely and family oriented. There’s an active parent support. It’s expensive but that doesn’t seem to be an issue?

I’d have coffee with you and babysit I feel quite an un-Mumsnety need to give

But saying that my DH constantly bemoans that he doesn't have enough time to see the children, exercise, do hobbies etc.
He thinks I am privileged that I get to see the children more (I am) but doesn't see that it isn't to his detriment. He refused to ask to go down to 4 days a week, refused to ask for paternity leave and as for asking for time off to visit schools.... so, to me, he is his own worst enemy.
He is a complete martyr at weekends - will not take any time to himself. Even a haircut. He gets to 5pm on Sunday and complains that he didn't have time to go to the barbers... not that he mentioned it, asked for the time away or just went. He makes me feel awful for going to the gym, seeing friends etc at the weekend as he thinks it should be 100% spent as a four - I am working on this, he does see that i spend 3 days a week alone with them and on the other two I work 9-5 but close to home so I drop the children off and pick them up at 8.30:5.30 and so I do spend time with them.

In many ways this could have been me. My DP when the twins were 7 though...
Definitely get some help. Something that bugs me on here is how people talk about nannies and babysitters like they are automata who only relate to the children. They aren’t! I made loads of friends with my nannies and helpers and still follow them on FB and enjoy seeing them having their own babies. I second PP saying get help on Saturdays - this was a thing I did. You have to accept that your family isn’t going to look like the cosy foursome you imagined it to be and this is hard. But embracing having helpers around has its own rewards. It is great getting to know those different people who all have their own stories.

Not all parents who live in London work full time. Just go to parent and baby groups, singing, reading, exercise, whatever, it's out there, just go and grab it. Check out your local notice boards, netmums, that app for mums making friends. Cities are arguably alot easier to make friends in as there is so much stuff going on.

I’m always amazed how on childcare boards you can specify the most random things, and SOMEONE wants the job. We hired a professional nanny, but very much in a babysitting role, to give SAH DH a break. The added benefit is that she knows the children so is also our preferred evening babysitter, allowing us to go out in the evenings (together or separately) which is fantastic. I found that if DH had a break during the week, he’s far more inclined to be happy if I get a break on a Saturday, plus we use Saturday’s for extra chores, and then Sundays are generally family time and we do stuff all together. I think there’s this perception that a nanny is someone who is with your kids a lot, but it doesn’t have to be at all. Ours works 8 hours a week. Currently one full day but previously two mornings when DC were smaller.

I hope things have improved a but now for you OP?

My DTs are 3 now and I completely relate - I honestly thought DP would be a 10 out of 10 dad, hands on, really interested and involved, and in reality he's probably a 4. Plus he makes me feel like shit most of the time now. I'm a SAHM now, not out of choice but I was made redundant when I tried to return from maternity leave, and we can't afford childcare for me to go back (ridiculous I know, but it's £100+ per day round here!). He sees being a SAHP as the 'easy job' and doesn't lift a finger to help round the house. I am hoping that things will get easier in the next year or so when they start school.....

Have you tried your local children's centre to make friends at groups? There's usually two or three helpers there to give you a hand! Also download the Hoop app if you haven't already to find out (paid) classes are available in your area. It may be the wrong time of year to get talking to people in parks and playgrounds, but some outdoor groups still run, if you think your DTs would enjoy that.

There are some good twin mum groups on Facebook and more are listed at www.tamba.org.uk/clubs

Finally good luck!! I second what you say about it actually being easier without someone unhelpful around; on average it usually takes me an hour longer to get out of the door in the morning with DP around, as he's such a faffer and still thinks he can have a nice relaxing lie in, even with two toddlers on the loose....!

Have you considered joining one of the private members clubs for families? I know there are quite a few in London. It could be somewhere you can hang out as a family at the weekends, possibly make some friends?