DH’s working hours/lonely evenings/me not wanting a nanny

[crazytiredboth]

(Apologies in advance that this is so long. I’m upset and don’t speak to adults very often!)

I am a SAHM to 1 year old twins. Have never had formal childcare help. Closest family three hours away. Husband works abroad at least a few days each week and works long hours if he’s in the country. I am generally happy being on my own at home with DTs but I am of course lonely and exhausted. (They’ve always been good sleepers so I don’t have overnight issues to contend with but they’re full on in the day).

DH normal day if in UK is out the door by 0700 not home til 2100, often working later in office and always still working from his phone if he is at home. Often has to dial into conference calls from bed. (He works across multiple time zones). Holidays get cancelled days before we go because of deals that have to be worked on, so have given up ever trying to book to go away. He is one of those ambitious types who thrives on pressure and is financially very well rewarded - he thinks this makes it ok and is why he does it. I would disagree as think quality of life is lacking but he has worked this hard his entire working life, it’s not new. The difference is he can’t have weekends to do as he pleases now. There’s an element of “you know what you signed up for when you married me”. (I see his point, but I didn’t know I would have two children at once).

We have argued all weekend, the classic competitive tiredness type bullshit and “I’m doing all this for you!” one liners. I don’t earn because I have chosen to raise our DTs at home so yes, he is paying for everything. I would gladly live somewhere cheaper/smaller though (and have said many times) I’m not out and about spending his money frivolously. Financially he does not need to work at the level he does - it’s a choice he makes because he wants to save to retire young and for our children to be well provided for. (Which I totally appreciate is his choice to make and I am grateful for - though it may not seem it ).

I often dread weekends because I am so used to it being just me and DC then he comes along and wants (and needs) to relax a bit but guess what? You can’t with two toddlers around. (Cue him being nasty and me being petty with “welcome to my life” type comments which obviously don’t help).

Fuck that’s a long backstory but basically, any argument descends into him saying I HAVE to get a nanny and that this would solve all our problems. I fundamentally don’t want one (I know good ones exist, I know lots of people love theirs, but I don’t work and the idea of having a nanny as a SAHM feels bonkers to me). I could get a part time job to justify (to myself) having a nanny but it seems crazy when I desperately want to be with my children while they are young. We don’t need the money me working would provide.

Part time nursery is an option I suppose but I’m concerned about illnesses as they were born prem and get ill constantly WITHOUT nursery, so can’t imagine it with. One or other is ill most of the time so I imagine myself in a ridiculous situation where I will be paying for both to go but one will be at home with me on any given day, defeating the object of me getting a break.

I’ve struggled to make local “mum friends”, at first because it was nigh on impossible to get out with DTs but latterly because I live somewhere where everyone seems to have a nanny and it’s the nanny that goes to the park/classes where I would meet people.

I miss DH. His working hours were always this bad but pre-kids we could make it seem ok...I’d meet him for dinner at 9 in town (we’re in central London, so not as bonkers as I appreciate it sounds reading this back) and weekends we could both just chill in bed. Used to eat out a lot and go to nice places (I.e feel like the working hard was worth it because we got to enjoy “fancy things”) but now I’m stuck at home of course.

I don’t feel like childcare is the issue and that a nanny would help, I feel like my issues are being lonely (every evening on your own is maddening with time) and feeling like I want to spend time as a four and that it’s not possible. This weekend I’ve had a bit of a break where he’s sent me to bed/out for coffee but it’s always been off the back of an argument and has meant I’ve just spent EVEN MORE time on my own. As soon as I come back he has to have a sleep himself. Tag team parenting. So great, another weekend where we haven’t been able to spend any time together - all under the guise of “doing me a favour” and therefore I can’t complain.

I don’t even know what my AIBU is really. I’m just upset and miss him. Contrary to this long whinge-fest we do actually really get on and love each other. Hopefully not past tense!!!!

I suppose it’s AIBU for thinking a nanny wouldn’t solve our problems? I don’t want a stranger raising our children when I don’t even work. Maybe I’m just an ungrateful cow? Maybe I’m depressed? Although I only get this upset when he is around and not helping. M-F I just get on with everything relatively happily.

Is it just one of those things that gets better as DC get older?! I’m aware his working hours are unusual but hopefully someone can relate?! Maybe no matter what your childcare set-up is the first few years of parenthood are just really bloody hard on any relationship?

(I also know we are VERY lucky to be in a financial position where I don’t have to work, but it’s still hard raising two babies completely on your own. Hopefully this essay doesn’t come across as massively out of touch and offensive. I know things could be a lot worse. Spending night after night on your own just messes with your head)

OK op. I never had twins but I did have 5 pgs that reached the 2nd trimester and eventually managed two DC in a five year period.

DH is a workaholic. We are late 50s now
Actually workaholics don't slow down or give up work. DH was supposed to at 55 but has thrown himself into something connected. If he was a builder his houses woukd go up faster and be more perfect than the other builders'.

I'm sorry this is your bag and you have two choices. You knew the score. Either you get on with it with joy because you know you have two dc, plenty of money, partner and security or you walk away. Now or later when it hurts the children more.

If you do love him then compromise. Stop whining about not having help, not having friends. Get part-time help. You probably need a couple of long half days with a nanny/childminder and a baby sitting service twice a week. Find a reading group, tennis club, church to get involved with. Start enjoying your privilege and start working as a team. Be glad your dh is a workaholic and not a workshy git so often complained about on here.

We are old now op. We made it work together. Our dc are grown up. We made it work because we always made each other happy and that's the nub of it really. I went back to work years ago: what helped most when dc were small were good neighbours, toddler groups, singing group, library time and making a routine and friends. And running the family like a little team - me at charge at home, DH at work and allowing me to have the privilege of that time at home.

Op needs to stop whining . Dh needs to step up more like. She may as well be single.

She may indeed as well be single. Many many mothers are. But they don't have Central London homes and wealthy husbands. They certainly don't have choices.

I sometimes thought that had I been single there would be one less to look after. But I wasn't single I was married and we had to work together to make it work. The grit required in these sorts of relationships cannot be underestimated.

I second and third lots of ideas already offered. Get some help - perhaps a regular couple of slots in the week so that you can have 2/3 hours to yourself and a regular good babysitter. You said you used to meet your husband at 9pm for dinner pre-kids and that your kids are good sleepers so it would be great if you could get that back with a good babysitter once a week. Plus at the weekends if you had a couple of mornings of help in the week, you’d be less shattered and perhaps weekends would be easier to handle.

Oh bless you - you sound very lonely. I'm crap at advice but I'm sure you will get lots here. I think you need to see your husband more.
I get that the financial rewards for working like this are good, but is it all really worth missing out on his family like this?!? They won't remember the money but they will remember that the didn't have a lot of time with him.

a nanny would just enable him to feel justified carrying on the way he is.

Yup! I’m in a similar situation to you OP - two small children and their dad is a workaholic. I’ve been blue in the face with the same arguments and resentments for a couple years now and it’s exhausting. He pays for a family member to come to the house 3 days per week to help me out. It’s fantastic in one way obviously, but he thinks it solves everything and absolves him of parental responsibility.

I keep telling him he’ll regret it one day and try to make him see that money isn’t everything and his relationship with DD1 is already affected (and she’s only 2!) no real advice just solidarity

OP, much sympathy. That sounds really hard. Small children are utterly grueling - I only had one and he was hard enough!

Everyone else has already suggested evening babysitters, so I'll just add:

Please try and stop having the tiredness competition. Everyone has it when they have young children and it never goes anywhere. Because the truth is, working a full time (or longer) job and never getting any weekends off because you have small children is really fucking hard. Being at home all week with two small children and never getting any time with other adults is really fucking hard. They both are. You both need to acknowledge this.

I also felt like, weirdly, you're both asking the same thing of each other. He's saying "I'm so tired working all day!" And you're saying "So work less and give more time to us then!" And you're saying "I'm so tired and lonely looking after the kids all day!" And he's saying "So do less childcare and give more time to us then!"

Maybe if you phrased it like that, you could find a compromise? You could get a bit of evening help so you can go to the gym or something and he can try and come home early on Friday?

My sympathethies on the friend thing, though. London is a weirdly hard place to find friends in your thirties. All your likely friends have moved out to the suburbs.

Your husband is unlikely to change so you need to build a life that works for you and him and your twins.

If you really want to go back to work, do it. Get a nanny. They’ll work when the kids are ill.

If you don’t get some ad hoc childcare to allow you some childfree time to do whatever you want to and build your own life

Carve out time at the weekends for the four of you and set some boundaries that you all stick to. His job doesn’t come first every time and he needs to acknowledge this and deal with it.

Good luck

Little bear pads advice is good

particularly this part is very true.

Your husband is unlikely to change so you need to build a life that works for you and him and your twins.

I work with a hundred guys like this. They do the job for the lifestyle, the status and glory and themselves. Stepping back is not something most are interested in.

I don't think it is necessarily fair to say the DH is a workaholic. If his profession is what I suspect he will pretty much have to do those hours to progress. If he doesn't then someone else will.

My DH may appear to be a workaholic, certainly he isn't around a great deal. But he has provided us with a very nice lifestyle which gives us a lot of choices. And when he is with the children he is very very good with them.

But if you have a very stressed job or run your own business where many other people rely on you to pay their mortgages/support their families you can't always clock off at 5pm.

Hence I think OP just needs to source some good childcare for week days/evenings/Saturday (all or some of those).

I have very much carved out my own life and believe me it gets a lot lot easier when your dc are older. Those baby/toddler years were very very hard.

Well said Mrs Campbell-Black.

Don’t rule out a day a week at nursery, ours started like that and was ill for most of the winter but having trained his immune system up he is much stronger now and never seems to get ill. You are probably just delaying being ill until school starts. If you’re concerned I might wait until April/May though when the cold/flu season is over. It would give you space to do your own thing which is great for your mental health.

Why not try one of the part time nanny options for 6 months and see how it goes.

Maybe from 2-11 2 nights a week? Then reassess.

Use the time to do the things you want for yourself, dinner with DH and also to work out what you really want from him moving forward.

Sounds like you and DH deep down fundamentally disagree on what a work life balance looks like or even that having one is important!

He sounds utterly disengaged.

Does he come from a boarding school background? Does that affect how he sees his role as a father to be more a financial role not a physically present role?

It sounds rough as all fuck to be you OP. The money is a red herring. All the money in the world doesn't buy happiness. Your DH is deluded thinking it does. He's putting his feeling of importance above his family's emotional and relational needs and that is painful.

Unmumsnetty hugs.

What are you just a hired womb to him them. Now hat you are complaining it's easier for him to pay for a nanny to silence you than for him to be a part of you and your twins lives

Get a divorce, no amount of money is worth being treated like hired help and and you will be better off financially and emotionally

Your husband is stuck in the classic career rut
Work hours to buy shit you don’t need etc

So caught up he can’t see that you have fuck all life at the moment and having for a year !

I work in a similar industry but try and leave on time , and I don’t travel or do the crazy calls . But most of my clients are like your Dh ( and get paid a lot more than me !)

I say this because I see this all the time and it Mystifies me . And they rarely retire young . Something always crops up and anyway work is what gives them their self esteem .

I don’t know what the answer is . Yanbu to fell this way . You need to talk to him .

This isn’t what you signed up for for your life journey is it ?

I often wonder sometimes about people with loads of money. Are they happy, do they see their partners, do the spend time with kids.

Those early years are the important part for bonding. At 13 yrs up they wont have an interest in him or relationship.

It sounds like money and work are more important to him. Kids don't care about the money, they care more about having their mums and dads. Read Raising boys or Raising girls.

I am luck, even though it is very hard but me and my partner have been at home raising the kids together. The come to me more than they do her and my name is always called.

Quality time needs to be spent with you and with the kids. Get a nanny if you can afford it, so you can have a break and he can spend some time with you.

All the money in the world is useless if you are unhappy/lonely and working to hard is bad for your health.

Personally I would make my life work for me without my partner involved if he's not around anyway.

You need a break. Me and my partner give each other a day off every so often. Dont be a martyr. Nobody will be raising your kids, you'll be able to raise them better if you are rested.

Your partner has chosen his life, if he doesn't want to be a part of the family then start building your own life. Do classes, courses, meet people and get yourself a social life. Don't feel guilty for leaving your kids with a nanny for a few days or nights. Most people would love to have some help.

He is missing out and you are probably so exhausted you struggle to enjoy it too.

Why has Prestonflowers tagged @AnyFucker with her troll hunting post?

OP, it sounds grim and I'm so sorry for you. I do think having a job or work of your own in time might well be the answer from the loneliness point of view. I wouldn't want to build my socoial life around a group of nannies in your position and tbh I doubt the nannies would be very welcoming to you either.

I'm certain your husband won't retire early. He is monumentally selfish in the pure sense of the word ... he does this work for his status and reputation as much as the financial reward. I sense that you are slightly insulted by the nanny suggestion, as if he is saying you cant manage your side of the deal by yourself, but you clearly can! You need to start looking at it as one of the luxuries his megabucks salary can pay for that is actually worthwhile, rather than having a big house and lots of stuff.

I really feel for you. So many men expect their lives to go on exactly as before after the children come along. What irritates me most about your Dh is that he expects to "relax" at the weekends. What a bellend.

You don't mention any other kids so you've lived this life for a year or so. What was your life like before you had them? Did you have any friends, a job or reasons to leave the house? Or were you always a home maker? Surely you can still reconnect with 'you' in some way?

Hope you're using excellent contraception anyway, or better yet not sleeping with this non father.

"I don't think it is necessarily fair to say the DH is a workaholic. If his profession is what I suspect he will pretty much have to do those hours to progress. If he doesn't then someone else will."

He's already earning megabucks so why does he need to progress? You'd think that after a certain level of income, having a good work-life balance would be the aim.
He sounds like he really wants to work and prefers to be at work so a workaholic.

Another thought ... we also increased the hours that the cleaner game. She does the ironing, makes the beds, puts a couple of loads of washing on, puts the DC's clean clothes away & puts the supermarket delivery away. Otherwise, I used to be doing all of that on a Saturday whilst DH looked after the children or I could see he was knackered so I tried to do both at the same time.
We also have someone who mows the lawn for similar reasons.
And once a month or so at the weekend, I will arrange to meet up with a friend and similar aged children for the day leaving DH at home to do nothing. I end up having a chance to catch up with one of my working friends and DH gets a chance to re-charge and just spend time in the house by himself. Again, it took him a while to catch on but he does the same for me (never manages a whole
morning but does manage a few hours). A key tip if your DH does this is never comment negatively on what the children are wearing/eating/doing provided it is safe. I reminded myself that of course I was good at looking after the DC and knew what was & wasn't age appropriate as that was my job. I wouldn't expect to walk into DH's office and be able to do his job so why should he do mine although I am still amazed that DC2 survived sausage (complete in its skin, not even peeled) as an early weaning food

'You're husband's never going to change'- so you have to adapt your life to him!? Or he is providing you with a nice life so put up and shut up. What! so we've gone back to the 50s now! You should adapt your life to you and the kids. Do what makes your quality of life better. Forget about him, he doesnt do the same for you. And oh when it comes to who wins the 'tiredness war' - I would say it's op every time.

I think @CheerfulMuddler has hit the nail on the head that London itself (at least where we are) is a strangely difficult place to make friends sometimes and yes, all our friends have moved out to the suburbs. (As would we if market wasn’t completely flat - hopefully once Brexit “settles down” it will be an option again). These replies have motivated me though to try to make much more effort. I had become a bit lazy thinking “well we’ll move soon” so had given up a bit on making connections here but it looks like a) we won’t move soon and b) it’s crazy not to make the most of being here while we are.

He’s not boarding school background and would hate the idea of DC being sent to board. He is very close to his family (although his dad worked similarly hard when a young child and then was around a lot for later years - so he sees it as a model that works well) and is equally frustrated that we don’t live closer so we can have a more traditional set-up with adhoc family help. The only way that would work though would be if he carried on living here and I lived with DC somewhere else - not what either of us want.

I had a difficult pregnancy with a lot of hospital time so I feel like I’ve been apart from “real life” for more like two years really, but pre-pregnancy I did have a life yes! Part-time childcare help would definitely help me reconnect with it.

@A580Hojas is completely right that I feel insulted by the nanny suggestion as though I’m being told I’m not doing a good enough job when I feel like I have literally done everything anyone could ever hope to do. But it’s not meant insultingly and I do know this when I am more rested and not in the middle of an exhausted argument. He is seeing I want a break and offering me the chance to have one so I need to realise that this is actually a good thing.

Thanks for all the advice, especially from those in similar positions. I agree I just need to carve out more of my own life. I know lots of new mums feel like they have sod all going on in their life outside of their home/DC bubble and I’m in a lucky position to be able to use paid childcare to facilitate finding a bit more “me” again. Thank you for making me realise what I needed to which is that most people have some basic level of childcare help whether it’s through partner/family/paid help - it doesn’t mean you’re not coping. It’s normal. And necessary!

It’s extremely hard to convey what the working hours of jobs like these really entail to people who haven’t lived it so it’s been good to get feedback here.

I don’t feel like a rented womb or that I want a divorce (!) we just both want better balance. The irony is of course that he was around with zero work all weekend but we chose to argue. We could have had a nice weekend. That’s where things need to change.

Thanks all.

I could of written this post......

You literally wrote down my life

Though I don’t feel unhappy with mine. I don’t mins the fact that my hubby works the long hours

Can we pm here?