International Men’s Day

[Pinkyponkcustard]

I don’t get it! My work is making a big fuss out of this today but it honestly makes me roll my eyes in a company where most of the execs and senior management are men.

Am I missing something?! I thought the whole point of “days” was to talk about improving things/raising the profile of minority groups.

Happy to be educated out of my eye rolling!

The fact that we can’t even discuss issues faced by men without huge critism, shows alone that IMD is actually needed.

@goodwinter.

Because it's still male violence that is the issue.

Men face struggles so it's important to highlight them. Our Women's Network helped promote appreciation for male mental health due to the sad statistics about male suicide. I also saw an article shared which I didn't get a chance to read unfortunately, but it was highlighting the emotional impact of a traumatic birth on the man...which, to be fair, is often over looked.
It's not them against us. We can take a day to appreciate the male achievements and support male causes.

In my flatshare we've used it to talk about mental health, and toxic masculinity, lad culture and stereotyping. Things that guys struggle to talk about but things that need addressing.

What difference does that make in the context of the validity of IMD?

Because there does seem to be this idea that the fact that so many men are murdered is somehow women's fault, or makes women's struggles less valid, when it's actually nothing to do with women. I haven't actually seen much in the way of men themselves speaking up about IMD in a way that isnt 'these stats will shut up those feminists'. Men don't seem to actually be prepared to do much about toxic masculinity?

And many women, understandably, don't believe that they should be putting the work into sorting men's problems out. Because women are always the ones who are expected to pick up the pieces and sort stuff out.

I have zero problem with IMD. But I also think men should be stepping up and making an effort to try and solve certain problems, not using those problems as some sort of 'gotcha'.

Avegemitesandwich

so if men should sort out men's problems, then why complain when they have a chance to? Why call them all MRA's and the women that support them handmaidens?

Because there does seem to be this idea that the fact that so many men are murdered is somehow women's fault

But I also think men should be stepping up and making an effort to try and solve certain problems, not using those problems as some sort of 'gotcha'.

I can only assume that the men you speak to about IMD are idiots. Please don't use them as a representative sample of our gender. I have never seen, nor comprehend the attitude of, someone blaming women for the male death rate.

If anything, male on male violence proves a need for IMD. As a way to avoid being put at risk by participating in macho behaviour as both a potential victim and also as a potential aggressor. The less macho bullshit in society that we have, the less male victims there are, and also less men entering the justice system as criminals. That would seem to be a win-win for society.

so if men should sort out men's problems, then why complain when they have a chance to? Why call them all MRA's and the women that support them handmaidens?

I don't think people should complain about it and I don't think people should call people MRAs or handmaidens just for supporting IMD?

People like Simon Thomas the TV presenter and the Irish comedian Steve Timothy have written a lot on social media about men's mental health and toxic masculinity. Both of them have got quite a lot of shit for it..... From men.

Because they very seldomly do try and sort out men's problems, that's why.

I am yet to actually meet an MRA who is actively working and campaigning for more support for male domestic abuse victims, for instance. I have however come across many who whine and moan about how unfair it is that women have shelters and men don't whilst ignoring how women got these things in the first place.

If MRA's actually did something to help men rather than whine about women constantly then I would at least have some respect for them.

Instead they would rather post dodgy statistics like the ones earlier in the thread on IMD .

Take that advert disrespect nobody about domestic violence that was on a few years ago. People were outraged because it apparently only showed women being abused by men and that it was saying all men were abusers.*

There were petitions and Facebook pages dedicated to getting it banned. There were countless of outraged comments about how men are abused too and how their is little to no support for them.

Fair enough of course. They are entitled to their opinion and if they want to speak out on behalf of male victims then more power to them. But how many of these outraged people would have actually given a shit about male victims otherwise? How many of them would actually do something to actively help those male victims they claim to care so much about? How many of them donated money, offered to volunteer, campaigned, raised awareness, etc? I'm willing to bet very little of them, if any.

I do find it amazing and quite frankly somewhat offensive how many people only seem to give a shit about male victims is when people are doing something to help female victims.

*It wasn't imo. There were actially a couple of instances in the ad where the sex of the perp and victim weren't mentioned. However because they weren't shouting "Don't worry men get abused too!!!" it apparently meant they were saying only women get abused.

I have a male husband, a male son, a male father, a male brother, male grandfather's, male friends etc. I love men.
We are currently trying to deal with my DHs mental breakdown. He has been contemplating suicide because he feels so emasculated by the fact the company he works for is failing and he can't provide for us. It has been ingrained in him for so long that to be a good man, he has to provide for his family. It's killing him. He can't speak to anyone for all the reasons mentioned in Seth's post. He speaks to me when I force him to talk. I hope he heard the messages today, that's it's okay to cry, it's okay for him to talk, that he isn't a failure. He's heard it enough from me but it matters when he hear it from other men. Men going through what he is.

PlantsArePeopleToo
Because they very seldomly do try and sort out men's problems, that's why.

I am yet to actually meet an MRA who is actively working and campaigning for more support for male domestic abuse victims, for instance.

Yet you are lumping all MRAs in to one category. I know many men that have campaigned quietly and sensibly for more male shelters, but they are not news worthy.

I have not only campaigned for male shelters but for female shelters as well.

And lets be honest about this, any talk on here about male victims of DV/DA instantly turns in to the 'whataboutery' that various forum members hate. #nodebate etc.

Read my post again. I said I have never come across an MRA who is doing these things, not know man has ever done these things however.

I have met men who have campaigned for more support for male victims however they didn't call themselves MRAs. Interestingly enough they called themselves feminists or feminist alleys and made every effort to distance themselves from the MRA movement. Make of that what you will.

*no
*ever

It’s 24 hours that people want to specifically address issues that face men, to speak out in the hope that it helps someone who is struggling. It is taking nothing away from woman, if you want to use those 24 hours to make yourself back into the victim then go ahead but please don’t minimise male hardship in the process.

And lets be honest about this, any talk on here about male victims of DV/DA instantly turns in to the 'whataboutery' that various forum members hate. #nodebate etc.
Also, absolutely this.

PlantsArePeopleToo

The men that I have worked with that do with don't virtue signal by calling themselves "feminists" or "feminist allies" either.
but neither do they make a lots of noise about it as they know the response that they will get.

Can we please just stop with the assumption that all women have an emotional support network on call? Not only is it not true it is also bloody offensive to those women who don't have one or who want one so desperately but for whatever reason don't have one.

I do find it amazing and quite frankly somewhat offensive how many people only seem to give a shit about male victims is when people are doing something to help female victims.

Plantsarepeople, you seem to find a lot of things offensive, yet just brush off and minimise serious issues that most decent people, men and women, find offensive, like the lack of any screening programme for prostate cancer.

The number of young men killing themselves doesn't matter because more women try to kill themselves. Like it's a game of suicide Top Trumps.

Men getting murdered, doesn't count because other men are killing them. Male victims of DV, more female victims so we win. 3.5 more men going to jail than women for the same offence doesn't count because men are the judges.

I can't recall your reason for your lack of regard for men dying every 45 mins in the UK of prostate cancer but I'm sure you have a reason why they deserve it.

Well I personally find your posts offensive. However, as I always try and remind myself, just because I'm offended doesn't make me right! Which is perhaps something you should take on board.

International mens day highlights some of the struggles men currently face within society, suh as high rates of suicide etc. Also used to raise awareness of issues that affect men so prostate cancer eyc
^ this

sethis - brilliant posts. All of them.

I don't see IMD as a day of them shouting how they're victims...
More about affording them the chance to have it shown to them that yes, men can be victims, and yes it is okay to talk about it.

My DP finds it hard to talk, because as a man it isnt a done thing. Having equality in the relationship and letting him be vulnerable around me, his girl, isn't the done thing. It's important to me that i help him feel he can talk to me, and supported

Just to pick out one point from previous posts... I think it's great that theyre highlighting prostate cancer statistics. I think it's a damn shame that there isnt screening offered for it, especially now with it being the biggest killer, and testable!

Late to the thread so not a whole load to offer, but.. sethis pretty much sums up everything I want to get across!

I would prefer to call it International Men's Health Day, as it is the specific area that many above have mentioned, and it would give a greater focus on what the day is about.

Agreed @sethis said it. They're not trying to minimise womens struggles. Or make themselves victims.

Men suffer because of tocic masculinity. Men suffer because of spcieties views on what a man should be. Cant they have just one day to try combat this?why cant they have one day that allows them to speak about their issues and problems that affect them?

But then health isn't the only focus.

The focus maybe, relationships, how men act, violence by men and against men, societies view of men, what it means to be a man etc. That is what is happening at my work

I am not offended.

You also haven't backed up your claim that men get longer jail time for the same offence or re: prostate cancer.

The sex of the judge is very relevant as is the sex of the perpetrators of violent crime when people are posting questionable statistics but making it look like it is somehow women's fault.

Not once have I said that male domestic abuse victims don't matter. In fact I have even said it is bloody crass and offensive that so many people only seem to give a shit about them when female victims are being discussed. Correcting an incorrect and highly debunked statistic about how many DV victims are men does not = not giving a shit about those victims.

You know what, you can talk about this for 24 hours and then forget about it. I however will continue to challenge and question gender roles every single bloody day even if people continue to laugh at me and think I am overreacting.

I will continue to tell boys every day that they Don't have to be strong all the time and I will call out anyone who insults them for crying or showing vulnerability.

I will call out anyone who implies that feminine traits are inferior or that girls are inferior. Even when people ask what the big
deal is and if I Don't have anything better to worry about. I will remind everyone constantly every day that every single one of those small things are all part of a bigger picture and if we Don't stamp them out whilst they're still small they will just keep growing and they will never go away.

I have plenty of empathy thanks. It's actually one of the downsides of being autistic. I have far too much empathy to the point where it keeps building up and I have no idea what to with it or how to express it.

And get lost with your claims that I Don't care. You are doing nothing but word twisting and putting words into my mouth when you haven't got a clue about me or my situation.

I am not offended.

Not only is it not true it is also bloody offensive to those women who don't have one

I do find it amazing and quite frankly somewhat offensive

@PlantsArePeopleToo

Do you care to comment on any of my points?

I mean, you KNOW what it's like to live your life without talking to anyone. You seem rather upset by it, in fact.

This is the default way of life for the huge majority of men. We don't talk to anyone, about anything. Whether we're worried about the shape of our penis, or if we're scared we're going to lose our job, we don't talk to anyone.

Yet you seem dead set against a single day of the year, where we try to challenge the damaging gender norms you hate so much.

Why?

I mean, great, be angry about false statistics. Be angry about stupid whiny people trying to prove that women have it worse than men.

Can't you at least get on board with the intent, and the thousands of people for whom IMD is helpful and useful, and might even have their life saved by it?

Sorry, that should be "don't have it worse than men."