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To be worried that this news will be buried?

300 replies

WhoWants2Know · 16/11/2018 17:51

What with it being CIN and May having to replace cabinet ministers again, I'm worried that this isn't being more widely reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/16/uk-austerity-has-inflicted-great-misery-on-citizens-un-says

For all the government say that Universal Credit is working to get people back into work, the UN reporter on extreme poverty and human rights finds that a fifth of the UK population is living in poverty now.

OP posts:
Becca19962014 · 17/11/2018 00:05

My student loan shows as unpaid debt on my credit record. I was told categorically it would not show up ever and wouldn't impact my ability to get mortgages or loans in the future.

From the moment it was sold in 2014 it showed up.

So regardless of what that link says mine does show as debt as it was sold to a debt collection firm. For £1. As was others.

There's no reason whatsoever not to think the government won't do exactly the same thing to other students as well. I know someone who thought theirs wouldn't be sold because of how it was repaid was shocked to get a letter saying its now under the control of a debt collection company and they must pay it back as they include housing benefit and child tax credit/ benefits as income

Bowchicawowow · 17/11/2018 00:09

Martin Lewis is adamant that student debt is a misnomer. He explains why in his programme ‘Ten things your kids should know.’

wonderstuff · 17/11/2018 00:19

I see a huge difference between now and 10 years ago, I think that a decade ago extreme poverty was generally the result of a complex situation, often because of debt, health difficulties, mental heath etc. Today I think that we have a huge number of people in poverty. Homelessness is visibly much higher, over a million people access food banks, the idea of charity preventing malnutrition in such a rich country, it's baffling.

I think that there has been a clear transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich, the banking crisis hit us harder than most countries as so much tax was being paid by those working in finance. The decision to cut public spending so hard and not to raise taxes for the wealthiest has resulted in huge difficulties.

The government has done nothing to address the housing crisis in any meaningful way, councils are unable to borrow to build new housing, supply of social housing is woefully inadequate. On top of this private renting is not properly regulated, one of the reasons people in Germany are happy to rent isn't some greedy British desire to own a house, its because the rental regulations there mean that people are not as vulnerable to be kicked out at a moments notice, people feel secure in rented accommodation, in the UK this isn't the case. Part of the issue with rented regulation is that half the MPs are landlords, because when they were stopped from claiming mortgage interest they rented out their mortgaged second properties so they could continue to profit from the housing boom and claim rent from expenses. Obviously them all benefiting from rising house prices is also a disincentive to sort out obscene price of property.

When Thatcher introduced right to buy we had a surplus of council houses (can you imagine).

The policy of 'making work pay' has obstensivly worked, although rather than making working more attractive, they've made benefits so awful that a zero hours min wage contract is more attractive. The problem with the gig economy is that fewer workers are paying any tax and more of them need benefits. If we don't tax the corporations either then we don't have money for services.

Someone mentioned school places, the problem here is that councils although responsible for ensuring enough school places are available are not able to build any schools. They instead have to liaise with academies and persuade them to expand as needed. Free schools have sucked resources from the system and aren't required to be set up in places that actually need a new school. Academy chains also seem to have creamed off some serious money for their directors.

The NHS isn't suffering because of migration, but from a lack off it, 100,000+ vacancies across the service, obviously removing training bursaries isn't helping either. 10 years ago it was fully staffed and relied on the good will of its staff contributing 1000's of hours work for free, today it is becoming dangerous I fear.

What baffles me is how all these people who voted leave have so much faith in the government. For all it's faults the EU has held the UK government to account on pollution, improved workers rights and funded projects in the most deprived areas of the UK.

RedneckStumpy · 17/11/2018 00:27

If it’s bad now, just think what it will be like 5 years after Brexit.

Flashingbeacon · 17/11/2018 00:34

If 1/5th if people (haven’t checked if this is adults or including children) are living in poverty does it really matter why?
20% cannot be because everyone has sky and student debt and refuses to work.
That’s rapidly approaching an underclass, which historically works out best for the top earners. I’m hoping I’ve just got my conspiracy hat on though.

ReanimatedSGB · 17/11/2018 00:53

You wonder where the money's all gone? Into offshore bank accounts, that's where. Privatisation means that money generated by a company supplying goods/services goes to shareholders rather than employees; the hoarding of wealth by the super-rich means that the money is no longer circulating in the economy. And wages, particularly in those areas which were once public sector/state-controlled, have been kept low in order to increase dividends to shareholders.
Any competent economist knows (and many of them keep saying so and being ignored) that the way to fix the UK's economy is very simple - give poor people more money. Unconditionally. What we need is trickle-UP, not the myth of trickle-down.

And the super-rich don't care about infrastructure, because they don't believe they need to. They don't need public transport - they have cars and private jets, and can afford to pay full-time personal drivers. They don't need the NHS - they can afford private healthcare.
Of course, the fact that the infrastructure needs to be in place and functioning properly for the benefit of the people they employ is not something they think about.

rubyslipper1 · 17/11/2018 01:32

yet where i live the council has just demolished 14 perfectly fit for use council homes because no one wants to live here (rural area, bad transport links).Makes me so angry that people are homeless and they destroyed 3 app. semi detached homes.
8 out of 10 people i know fake their ilness to claim esa. We are surrounded by fakers who are stealing from people who need it, whilst running their country to the ground .There is also a culture of "have a child, you'll get a free house" .

Working people should not be poorer than if on benefits .Including those on Working Tax Credits. Shame on the leaders of this country!!!!!

HelenaDove · 17/11/2018 01:43

Which health trust do you work for @rubyslipper1

itsthemenopausenotme · 17/11/2018 02:10

I used to live in Germany, the difference is huge! They also have a lot of immigrants, so I don't think that's the only issue here. I think its simply that politicians in this country don't look after the poor, but choose to punish them instead. And its not going to get better, it's only going to get worse.

I moved into a city three years ago and in that time things have noticeably got a lot worse. There are now so many homeless people, people begging, sleeping bags and tents in the doorways of so many closed shops on the high street. I can't get a doctor's appointment, definitely can't get a referral to any specialist i need to see.

In Germany they are laughing at us, because of Brexit, May ... We are the laughing stock of Europe.

I'm ashamed to be British these days. If I could leave again I would.

BogstandardBelle · 17/11/2018 06:35

I have to agree with the posters coming back to the UK from elsewhere and seeing the changes. We live in France and come back once a year. Over the last 10 years my «home town» has got poorer and poorer and it shows. The public facilities are vandalised and falling apart, the roads are in a dire state, people look sick and tired and fat. Decent shops have disappeared to be replaced by betting shops, cheapie pound stores and cash converters type places.

I don’t know why poverty is growing so fast in the UK but I agree that the Tories are ideologically opposed to equality, and basically don’t care about it as they believe that poor people deserve what they get irrespective of why they are poor - sickness, relationship breakdown, mental ill health, whatever - it doesn’t matter to them. And sadly a lot of people in the UK believe this too.

I think in France there is / has been a huge ideological commitment to equality. It is absolutely fundamental in public services, for better or worse. Universities, for example - they are virtually free to attend. Fees costs a few hundred per year etc. Childcare is provided by the state, free or very near to it, for all children aged 3 months and up because of an ideological commitment to equality and enabling women to work as much as men. Children can start going to school at 2-3yrs, and the school day can be extended to run from 7:30 am to 6:30pm if need be: preschool and after school care are available to all at very cheap (means tested) rates. Every family gets a «quotient familiale» each year, which is basically a coefficient derived from how your income compares with the average. The QF is applied to many things - from school meals to after school care to holiday clubs etc. etc. So low income families pay a lot less for all these things. And unlike UC etc it’s no questions asked for this: income is taken from your tax return, the QF is calculated from that - no interviews, no having to justify why you’ve got such a low income. It’s just assumed that equality is good for society and that this helps to achieve equality.

It makes me sad to see what a hard place the UK has become.

Believeitornot · 17/11/2018 07:00

No. You’re the one saying that my opinion is wrong. I don’t really care what you think. If you’re so bothered that I’m wrong, then that’s up to you. You’re welcome to try to convince me. I’m happy to ageee to disagree on your opinion

Ok, whatever

But maybe you should actually do some of your own research as opposed to anecdotal collection?

I’ve done loads of reading on this because I want to challenge my own assumptions. The question really bugs me, and I get quite annoyed when people make sweeping statements like yours without actually finding out a bit more.

And that’s how politicians continue to get away with breaking this country.

Devilishpyjamas · 17/11/2018 07:14

There was an infographic circulating last week showing the difference between lowest/highest earners in lots of countries. So a way of visualising inequality. The U.K. graph was shocking and completely different from anywhere else in Europe. Inequality is our biggest problem. Good luck getting those who think they’re worth their overinflated salaries to give some of their money up.

Devilishpyjamas · 17/11/2018 07:17

Any competent economist knows (and many of them keep saying so and being ignored) that the way to fix the UK's economy is very simple - give poor people more money. Unconditionally. What we need is trickle-UP, not the myth of trickle-down

Yes. This.

Devilishpyjamas · 17/11/2018 07:22

This is the graphic - wasn’t quite what I remembered but highlights UK inequality

pbs.twimg.com/media/DrHNwzKWwAA5GWp?format=jpg&name=large

To be worried that this news will be buried?
BogstandardBelle · 17/11/2018 08:10

You need to change yr title op, to mention UK poverty and the un report. I can’t believe something like this is slipping off the front page already.

VisitorsEntrance · 17/11/2018 08:37

It is so shocking. And while everyone is understandably tied up with Brexit this all goes unnoticed.

TheBigBangRocks · 17/11/2018 09:07

However I also feel that SOME people have irresponsible attitudes to money. I spent 15 years in banking in the U.K. before I left, largely working in very poor areas in the North East, and cannot tell you how many customers were in a position where their spending constantly exceeded their incomes because they failed to distinguish between necessities and luxuries. Can’t pay the rent, but paying £70 a month for Sky

I do think that plays a huge part. As adults we are responsible for our lives. Some are sensible, live within their means, work hard etc and are above "relative" poverty line. Others make ooor choices, believe everything should be handed to them (you only have to look at the moaning that they may have to work more or get less money) and have a myriad of excuses as to why they can't change things when they could but don't want too as it requires work and effort.

PeterRabbitsBlueCoat · 17/11/2018 09:08

@Believeitornot

I’ve done loads of reading on this because I want to challenge my own assumptions. The question really bugs me, and I get quite annoyed when people make sweeping statements like yours without actually finding out a bit more.

Bravo for your research. Well done you for challenging yourself.

I only came on this thread as other posters were comparing UK life with German, and I wanted to share my experiences of this and my opinion.

I get quite annoyed when people tell me that my personal opinion based on my experiences is wrong, stating the reason as “research”, but then tell me to find the research myself.

It’s interesting that the OP started this thread to convey her worries about things being buried, and here you and I are so busy arguing about different opinions that we’re losing track of the original OP. And that’s how a lot of things do get buried - opposing politicians get too obsessed in blaming the other side for it that no one actually sorts out the problem! (NB this is my opinion. I have not spent years researching this and have no academic papers to quote. Feel free to tell me it’s wrong)

longwayoff · 17/11/2018 09:19

Just before Christmas last year, picture in newspaper of our grinning Tory MP at the opening of yet another food bank in this small city. Our politician are a shameless bunch of grasping chancers and I include the so called socialists in that. Where's the opposition?

Believeitornot · 17/11/2018 09:24

Please don’t be so sneering because I’ve chosen to actually try and find out more instead of sitting back and spouting opinion. Just like a politician.

I haven’t lost sight of the original OP, although I will say, by continuing to post on this thread at least we are keeping it “active”.

Believeitornot · 17/11/2018 09:25

Where's the opposition

^this

Labour have been woeful, absolutely woeful.

It feels like a lot of politicians spout off on twitter and feel like that’s enough. They should be giving this government a hard time through all means - not just on the Internet.

Kemer2018 · 17/11/2018 09:39

I do class uncontrolled immigration as a cause of these issues.
The families statistically birth more children. Need more school places possible extra language assistance. Need more NHS time. May need more council housing. To say they are not a drain on our under funded public resources is stupid.

BogstandardBelle · 17/11/2018 09:45

But you have to ask why public resources are underfunded? That is a conscious decision by the government which fits with their market focused ideology - that public services can and should be restricted and replaced by commercial providers wherever possible. The UK (5th largest economy in the world remember) can afford to provide decent public services - the Tory government (and its supporters) choose not to.

longwayoff · 17/11/2018 09:46

Kerner. Read more.

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