To be worried that this news will be buried?

[WhoWants2Know]

What with it being CIN and May having to replace cabinet ministers again, I'm worried that this isn't being more widely reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/16/uk-austerity-has-inflicted-great-misery-on-citizens-un-says

For all the government say that Universal Credit is working to get people back into work, the UN reporter on extreme poverty and human rights finds that a fifth of the UK population is living in poverty now.

*out of

It's shocking. I'm a treasurer for a charity that helps families in crisis and our referrals for the first quarter of the this year was greater than the whole of 2014 when we first started. It's possible this could be because we weren't that well known but there has been a huge increase year on year. Food banks, and food bank collections are relatively common here (my sons school regularly has collections before school holidays), and we're not in a hugely deprived area.

Interestingly I read that the government austerity policy was to facilitate social engineering. Can someone explain this to me?

Universal credit will have an impact on many people who don't yet realise how they will be affected.
All people on tax credit will eventually be transferred over.
Private renting adverts are already starting to state 'no universal credit' in place of the present 'no housing benefit'.
The millions getting tax credits will find it very difficult to private rent.

Things shall only be getting a lot worse. I wonder why the 'better off' don't worry more about their personal safety situation as the number of desperate people continues to grow.

*Er yes so what’s your point? Individuals make poor choices. That happpens in all walks of life.

It doesn’t explain the massive increase in poverty, so no I wouldn’t attribute it as a fundamental reason as to why inequality is what it is.

The issue I have with trying to use that line as an argument is that people think it’s then acceptable to not do anything about poverty.*

My point is that inequality does exist. And if you’re earning £10k a year then you need to live like you’re on 10k a year. Maybe you made poor choices. Maybe you made great choices and then life shat on you. But this is where you are right now.

Not sure how you jump to not doing anything about poverty as I certainly never said that I don’t think people should be helped when they need it.

My point is that inequality does exist. And if you’re earning £10k a year then you need to live like you’re on 10k a year. Maybe you made poor choices. Maybe you made great choices and then life shat on you. But this is where you are right now

You said that you felt that people’s way of thinking was a contributor to poverty.

I challenge you on that as I do not believe it is a reason for the widespread poverty in the UK. Anecdotes are not evidence. It is a distraction from the fundamental problem we have in the uk.

But but but...if you look on the salary threads on this forum, 40% of posters are earning in the top 5%!

But MN is a rather self selecting group and a ‘how much do you earn’ thread is going to be an even more self selecting group isn’t is. No one is going to go on there to say they are struggling to make ends meet.

Yes I do believe that the casual attitude to debt is a contributing factor to poverty. (Key point contributing, not sole)

Challenge me all you like. I think it is; you think it isn’t. What’s your point?

This twitter thread about UC make interesting reading.

twitter.com/vonny_bravo/status/1063406682422808576?s=21

The long and short of it is that a woman worked as a carer. She was assaulted at work and left unable to work. She has ended up having to claim UC. Because her claim is based on her last months wages she has been awarded £6 a month.

Challenge me all you like. I think it is; you think it isn’t. What’s your point?

My point is that evidence suggests otherwise. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I do agree to a point Peter. The fact that most young people who have been to uni start their working lives tens of thousands of pounds in debt doesn’t help. When you already owe £45k what’s another £5?
Also, when I was young to be in any kind of debt, even having a credit card was seen as shameful.

However, I don’t believe that debt and poverty go hand in hand. Most people I know who live in poverty, and I include myself in the past, aren’t in huge debt. Overdrawn a bit but that’s it.
The people I know with large debts, not including mortgages have reasonable wages.

The roll out of Universal Credit has been catastrophic. The report says that the UK government are taking a callous approach to poverty and this roll out is a clear example of that. People waiting 5 weeks for it to be implemented them. How can anyone imagine that those reliant on benefits have access to 5 weeks bill money or even food money.

No personal axe to grind here ...never been on these benefits ...thank God ...but if illness, redundancy ext ext occurred could happen to any one of us at any time.

My point is that evidence suggests otherwise.

Please show me the evidence that debt has no bearing on poverty.

Please show me the evidence that debt has no bearing on poverty

You mean in the way you describe.... which was anecdotes of people paying £70 on sky 🤔

That was basically your premise.

People get into debtfor all sorts of reasons and in many cases it will be because they need to borrow to survive.

Which is a bit different to your original statement.

There is plenty of evidence to show that income levels are outstripped by housing costs and other living costs. People may have no choice but to get into debt to fund them as they have no more cloth to cut.

You, however, are making out that people are just getting into debt willy nilly.

I’m not digging out sources - do your own bloody research.

There is plenty of evidence to show that income levels are outstripped by housing costs and other living costs. People may have no choice but to get into debt to fund them as they have no more cloth to cut.

My previous post was about what constitutes a “living cost”. Rent, utilities, council tax, insurance etc - yes. Non-essential luxuries - don’t go into debt for.

You, however, are making out that people are just getting into debt willy nilly.
I am saying that I, personally, have encountered some people who have.

I’m not digging out sources - do your own bloody research.
No. You’re the one saying that my opinion is wrong. I don’t really care what you think. If you’re so bothered that I’m wrong, then that’s up to you. You’re welcome to try to convince me. I’m happy to ageee to disagree on your opinion vs mine.

The full UN statement.

www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=23881&LangID=E

@VisitorsEntrance I agree about uni fees - the idea of starting your working life with 45k debt is terrifying!

I don’t think that debt and poverty necessarily go hand in hand, as many people have one without the other. But I do think it contributes. So many people lost their homes in the last housing crisis because of 100+% mortgages which they took out in good faith. Because if your bank tells you something is ok, then it must be, right?

Channel Four News’s coverage of this was excellent.
I would like politicians to start tackling the cost of living in the UK. We need better and affordable public transport for a start.

But uni costs are not debt. You don' pay it back unless you are earning and eventually it's paid off if not.

I've lost track of the number of times I've been invited to apply for bank loans or had my credit card limits upped.

I'm on benefits, I cannot meet basic needs each month and there's no way, I could possibly meet repayments. I've been told I can consolidate my other loans nice and easy and get extra cash for what I pay now, but the reality is extending the debts I have now even longer. Debts for housing or medical care or carers, none for luxuries.

I had a letter this week telling me my credit card company are happy to up my limit to £20,000. I've about £1000 on it that I struggle to pay off and they know this.

I hate being in any debt, my disabilities are financially (and literally) crippling me and im not even in the horror that's universal credit.

I mentioned this limit to someone this week saying how disgusting it is to offer someone who is struggling to already pay off debt even more and they responded saying I'd been offered it so they must think I can repay and what'll I spend all that extra cash on. I've heard that several times. Credit cards/loans are not, to my mind, free cash!! They're for emergencies, only.

That's not to say that's why the poverty it's much more complex than that, but struggling and being offered money is, incredibly, tempting. I've needs that I could use that money for which would improve my life now, but I know I cannot pay it back. Others don't and willingly accept. Afterall the letters say things like "congratulations, we've looked at your account and we're pleased to offer you...." implying an assessment.

There was a time when these assessments were done properly in a bank with people assessing your income and expenditure and you had to prove you could pay it back, not anymore it seems.

The phrase "everyone's in debt it's nothing" is quite common.

There are many reasons for poverty and every study always by their nature look at a certain reason or reasons so cannot cover everything.

Uni debt is very misleading. I wish people wouldn't assume it's not proper debt and will just get written off, people are finding it's not that simple. The contracts weren't as clear as many thought and some, particularly early ones sold on are finding they're expected to pay back because things like housing benefit, UC, child tax credit and benefit are included as income by the companies they've been sold to whereas SLC didn't.

@VisitorsEntrance Christ that thread about the care worker.

Vonny LeClerc
‏Verified account @vonny_bravo
11h11 hours ago

The woman in the job centre told her to cancel her life and house insurance, even though she has cancelled everything including TV license, phone, internet, and bills. She tried to give my mum a leaflet on how to budget £6 for the month.
46 replies 468 retweets 821 likes
Vonny LeClerc
‏Verified account @vonny_bravo
11h11 hours ago

My mum burst into tears, and told the woman it was insulting, and left. She’s now sitting at home with no telly, no internet, nothing but the four walls to look at. No fuel so she can get out of her rural village. Her grown daughters are having to buy her food.

A fucking leaflet on how to budget £6 a month.

Best read for up to date on student loans, but it is not a debt.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/repay-post-2012-student-loan/

Visa"s Christmas advert..................support your local high street How are people like that care worker supposed to do that then.

This will also effect the economy both local and national.

Cheaper stores like B&M and Wilko will notice a drop in footfall.

Student loans might not be debts in the sense of a regular bank loan but surely there is a huge mental impact of starting working life, saving for a house, starting a family, with that hanging over you.