To be worried that this news will be buried?

[WhoWants2Know]

What with it being CIN and May having to replace cabinet ministers again, I'm worried that this isn't being more widely reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/16/uk-austerity-has-inflicted-great-misery-on-citizens-un-says

For all the government say that Universal Credit is working to get people back into work, the UN reporter on extreme poverty and human rights finds that a fifth of the UK population is living in poverty now.

"Obviously foodbanks and people living in tents." Wow! Way to miss the point! - if things weren't as bad there wouldn't BE food banks and people living in tents for him to see at all! Plus the report is not just based on what he's witnessed (though that's a pretty good evidence base!) but on facts and figures he's been researching for some time!

PeterRabbitsBlueCoat - I think the obsession with owning is largely down to how badly renters are treated in uk. I've also lived elsewhere in Europe and have friends/family all over the world living in countries that are better & (supposedly) worse off than uk. Most other countries give renters better rights and comparatively lower rents. Rents are approx 1/3 dearer per month than mortgage payments. Among those with a little spare money I'd agree that the view on what is a "want" and what is a "need" is flawed. But for the poor who of course don't have that luxury, they're struggling to cover needs.

"For example:

1. There isn’t the obsession with home ownership the U.K. has, so you don’t have the same housing issues. Also apartment living, and multiple kids sharing a room is very common. - poor rent not own and children sharing rooms is common, unfortunately so is poor housing

2. Second-hand is best! There’s a fleamarket for everything. second hand shops, Facebook pages & sites like freecycle & Facebook pages where people give away stuff for free are widely used. I live in a deprived area and the free Facebook page is very well used

3. Growing fruit and veg. not sure of situation now in Germany but certainly in Britain most cheap housing is flats with no outdoor space at all and landlords who refuse to allow eg window baskets - there isn't anywhere to grow anytime. Allotments are scarce & expensive. As are the materials required to start growing food. There was a thread a while back can't find it might be an old chat one that's gone. Where a poster banged on poor people should grow their own food and refused to accept the very real barriers to this. Several posters who were keen gardeners came on to point out that even if they tried there's no guarantee of a good crop

4. A lot of shops/restaurants are still very cash-heavy and don’t accept cards. Consequently people tend to favour using cash and therefore don’t end up with credit card debt in the same way. generally here the poor wouldn't be able to get credit cards. Unfortunately this leaves them vulnerable to loan sharks and frankly unscrupulous but legal lenders. This is starting to be clamped down on but the measures are missing the point which is if poor people weren't desperate they wouldn't need to borrow. I wonder if your perception of high credit card use is simply witnessing people using cards rather than cash? They may well be debit cards not credit cards. Anyone receiving benefits has to have a bank account and if there's not enough in your account to lift the minimum (usually £10) then you'll use your card. I also know many who use their cards as then a detailed record of spending is kept and you're only spending the amount required. It can be too easy when cash on hand to "just" get X y z especially if you have kids. Also the strong consumer culture here is very prevalent which certainly it wasn't when I lived in Germany. Shops are open pretty much 24/7 365 days a year. Whereas when I lived in Germany - and elsewhere in Europe there was very little Sunday opening, no opening on bank holidays or religious days and usually a half day in the week too. Much better. Shopping here has become an activity not just a necessity. Meanwhile true leisure activities are often too expensive for many so it's cheaper to pop to shops and waste time letting kids choose a toy in pound shop than to take them swimming or bowling and the cinema is really expensive. Poor weather makes outdoor activities impractical much of the time especially here in Scotland. Cold is one thing drenching rain quite another when people can ill afford themselves or their child becoming ill due to spending too long in cold, wet conditions

"The examples I listed were everyday things that I see here en masse which I didn’t see in the U.K" that suggests to me the people you were witnessing/spending time with in uk aren't those in poverty. Not something you can control as I'm sure you were likely visiting family/friends and I'm glad they're not suffering. But there are people much worse off who aren't poor due to irresponsible budgeting.

And yes - as pp said there's a large number of those in poverty, using food banks, homeless (and I mean on the streets homeless though temp accommodation no picnic either - I've been there!) are working full time, sometimes a full time job AND an extra part time one. THAT is how bad it is here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-44904638

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/growing-number-working-homeless-bedding-12964438

Also I think it highly unlikely that NO Germans poorly handle their personal finances.

Never mind "social engineering" what's happening is damn close to eugenics! I for one don't believe it's a coincidence that these policies are resulting in the deaths of the sick, disabled and mentally ill. That the evidence/statistics of this effect is being silenced to the point that even pathologists are being blocked from gathering stats outside their own area.

"And if you’re earning £10k a year then you need to live like you’re on 10k a year" do you have any idea of the living costs in the U.K.? There are many parts of the U.K. Where £10k simply isn't enough to live on - and I am talking basic needs (shelter, food, clothing, heating, water) not luxuries!

I'm on benefits, I'm unable to work due to ill health. I just about break even each month with careful planning & budgeting. I have no debts apart from my student loan. Those I know in similar situations have no debt, most don't have student debt either.

Most people who's income is solely benefits don't have debt - largely because they don't have access to it! And even those working in low wages don't necessarily have much greater access to debt. Ironically largely as a result of rule tightening following the 2008 crash - ie they punished the borrowers who are mainly the poor rather than the irresponsible lenders who are doing very nicely!

"People waiting 5 weeks for it to be implemented them. How can anyone imagine that those reliant on benefits have access to 5 weeks bill money or even food money." Actually in many cases it's been worse - it's been several months before they've seen a penny! Then you get Tory MPs making comments like 'they can just use their savings or cash in some shares' or one said about when moving house if family was evicted from old home before they'd somewhere else to go, re what to do with their furniture etc 'they can just put it in their other house' I shit you not! They are CLUELESS that ordinary people DON'T even have minimal savings let alone a 2nd bloody house!

Average rent in Scotland (and Scotland cheaper than other parts of uk) 2 bed flat £650

Average food costs per family £55

Average gas & electricity pcm £140

Average water bill England (not privatised in Scotland) £35pcm

Average council tax cheapest band £95pcm

Total average pcm living costs £975 - £11,700 per year.

Max Nmw 40 hrs per week take home pay £14,457.

BUT most people will also of course need - transport to work, clothes, shoes. So how are people supposed to manage?!

Helena thanks for link to full report.

"I would like politicians to start tackling the cost of living in the UK. We need better and affordable public transport for a start." Will never happen under a Tory govt, their idea of "public transport" is hiring a town car! Real public transport is something they simply don't use.

Becca I'm really surprised you're being offered more debt! Are you sure it's not just generic marketing and if you did actually apply you'd actually get turned down?

"20% cannot be because everyone has sky and student debt and refuses to work." Exactly!

"Any competent economist knows (and many of them keep saying so and being ignored) that the way to fix the UK's economy is very simple - give poor people more money. Unconditionally. What we need is trickle-UP, not the myth of trickle-down." 100% agree! Institute an ACTUAL living wage, build social housing (creating jobs as well as houses - this govt bangs on about wanting people off benefits and in work while doing sod all for job creation!)

"8 out of 10 people i know fake their ilness to claim esa." Bull! They don't just take the word of the claimant!

"And why are employment figures at an all time high? Because zero hours contracts are counted. You can't afford to live, but you're a positive statistic and apparently that's all that matters." Definitely - I pointed out to someone on FB (friend of a friend) just this week that the employment/unemployment stats are fiddled - the only people now being counted as "unemployed" are those on jsa or UC equivalent who have no paid work at all.

The underemployed, those unemployed but not claiming benefits for whatever reason (usually being supported by parents or partners/spouses), the disabled who could work but are unsupported, single mums who want to work but who's youngest child isn't yet of the age at which they insist they work - all not included.

Included in employment stats - anyone who gets paid if/when they work even if that's zero hours, 1 hour a week, self employed with erratic work availability.

BlueSmarties - the idea of a single monthly payment is a good one. The idea of a gradual move from being totally on benefits to a full wage is good one. The idea of a benefit that allows people to be flexible in their working patterns, try temp jobs (with the hope of it becoming permanent possibly, as a way of rebuilding cv) is a good one. These are supposedly why UC was introduced.

BUT the tories are using it as a way to reduce how much people receive overall (did they really think nobody would notice?!) and as per usual with govt changes (whatever colour of govt) were rushed in without proper testing of the IT system - which can't even cope with regular calendar monthly salary when apparently in "5 week months" people are "paid twice" and they end up with no payment! And the shortfall isn't rectified either. Can't cope with irregular hours, more than one job etc

I'm currently on the old system, I'm going to include when dd was younger and I got money for her too to illustrate my point, under the old system for me my money came/comes in, bits at a time:

Child Ben - Monday weekly
Child Tax credits - Tuesday weekly
ESA - Tuesday fortnightly
DLA - Tuesday 4 weekly
Housing benefit - 4 weekly Monday (different week to DLA)

which is a bloody pain in terms of organising a budget.

THEN in addition to that palava SOME bank holidays (not all) result in payments being made earlier. (Really unpredictable, and mirder every year to find when those payments will be made. Even the official published dates often change) Which can cause recipients to wrongly think they're better off, spend the money and then be stuck.

And if you have to deal with a change of circumstances? Omg, not unusual for it ALL to be "frozen" ie payments stopped and it can take MONTHS to sort out! Btw same happens in the case of malicious false claim of fraud is reported - even if you're found innocent. (Though funnily enough if an error is made that results in the recipient getting MORE than they're supposed to that's usually clawed back in the next payment! Yep even if only a couple weeks later!)

Now I'm an educated person, I'm pretty good at handling personal finances, I've worked as a bookkeeper for crying out loud! And even I get caught out eg by "ghost payments" when a payment shows on your account and you think you have the money but it isn't fully processed for whatever reason and then disappears back out of your account - it's why when I check my balance now I don't go on "balance" I go on "available funds". And I NEVER included money from anywhere until the amount has been on my account 48 hours.

As for simplifying! From what I'm reading about it I'm dreading it! Slow, frequently crashing system, hard to navigate, more questions than ever! Journals (the only way claimants have of communicating with the person administrating their claim) going unread, queries unanswered. All online too btw so for anyone who struggles to use a computer for whatever reason that's another barrier.

How are people who are less financially literate, affected by illness/disability (physical, mental or learning difficulties), under severe stress (eg post bereavement, caring responsibilities) supposed to negotiate all that?!

And it's making claimants fear returning to work because unless the new job pays enough you can live on it without needing extra help, you daren't risk ending up homeless because UC has been messed up and you can't pay the rent. Especially true for those with dependants. You might risk it if it's just you, but if you've young children or a sick/disabled relative who will suffer then you just daren't.

"Most landlords refuse to rent to benefit claimants because universal credit is so insecure it seems risky." Actually a major reason private landlords won't let to benefit claimants is clauses in mortgage or insurance contracts. Though I accept that supposedly those clauses were put in due to benefits being unreliable. However, simple way to deal with that is make it illegal! Both by landlords & mortgage & ins companies. But then I'd actually prefer there to be much more social housing available which I'm fairly sure would mean lower rents & more security for renters, but as a pp pointed out too many mps are profiting personally from the current set up! I'd ban that too! It's a conflict of interests!

"Before the system changed, working people claiming housing benefit and tax credits were seen as some of the most reliable tenants." When did you last rent as a benefit recipient? Because I have been for 16 years and all that time there's been many landlords refusing to rent to claimants.

"Paying more for unskilled jobs solves nothing as all the jobs that require skill will simply demand even more money. It won't suddenly give everyone a work ethic or the desire to not claim benefits." Are you sure you've thought that through? Surely if

Benefits = enough to live on but no luxuries

Unskilled work = enough to live on + some disposable income

Skilled work = enough to live on + at a better quality of lifestyle + more disposable income than unskilled workers

Professionals = enough for a good quality lifestyle + good amount of disposable income

Then there's still incentive for people to work, to better themselves, to improve their lifestyle? PLUS that disposable income in the hands of the less than wealthy tends to get spent mostly in the uk, which would stimulate the economy, which would lead to job creation, which would lead to more spending in uk etc. (Trickle up economics).

"people deciding that they don't have to work and can expect to still be fed, housed, clothed etc." This myth that the majority of benefit claimants simply CHOOSE Not to work really needs to be blown out the water. It's simply not true Even the very small minority of claimants who APPEAR to fit this category are often found to actually be suffering from illnesses (usually mh which people are still reluctant to disclose because there IS still stigma) or have eg a mild learning difficulty (usually undx) which means many jobs are just plain beyond their capabilities, illiteracy is a huge issue, as is innumeracy.

Then there's the FACT that even those willing, able and actively seeking work haven't enough jobs available to them. Last time I looked there's approx 3-4 times more people looking for work than there are jobs available - and that's all jobs not full time. And understandably people will try and work full time if they're able and so if they can't find a full time job they'll try and find 2 or more part time jobs that will bring them up to full time hours/wages. But that means others going without a job at all. (Btw I've yet - on any thread of this type - to have read a reply from a Tory voter giving any examples of where the tories are creating jobs).

TheMachineStops - excellent post. Yes I think many posters who believe the myths, who don't understand the pitfalls and "loopholes" have NEVER had to claim themselves. On the rare occasion that one of these posters comes back and says 'actually I have' when further questioned it turns out to have been some time ago and not under this govt.

We cannot keep swallowing the dangerous myth that poverty is due to lack of responsibility

"And thats why they should be paid for/while being "on call" " completely agree! If they're not allowed to earn elsewhere then damn well pay them for being available to your company.

There was a report I think from Christians against poverty (coup be wrong there) during the last election that found that actually zero hours workers over the age of 25 are generally not happy. Younger people - such a contract may well suit them at that life stage PLUS they haven't yet the life experience to likely have a comparison or for it necessarily to have occurred to them that they're disadvantaged by the lack of rights for employees with these contracts.

And the removal of legal aid for employment cases further leaves employees vulnerable to exploitation.

Racecar you clearly haven't even read properly any of the news articles on the report because the ones I have clearly state, often with links, how he calculated poverty.

"Unfortunately for the rich, they can’t let it happen again because this time round, their arses would be on the line too, because of nuclear weapons" you're right on the first part, but wrong about the method. Nuclear weaponry is pretty much outdated now. Personally I think in 50 years we'll likely look back and realise 9/11 or even the invasion of Kuwait was actually the slow burn start of ww3. What's more likely to be the culmination of that is bio-weaponry that's been designed to target (or rather avoid hurting) certain races. Allowing enemy countries/organisations to attack areas containing friendlies with a much reduced risk of killing their allies.

I'd LOVE to know who the "undeserving poor" are?! As for the appalling bitter & unfounded VERY personal attacks on Helenadove - well, reported obviously. Disgusting!

"yet never any mention is made of the undeserving rich" yes funny that isn't it? Never any criticism of people who've NEVER gone without extreme luxuries let alone necessities purely by accident of birth! Who will NEVER be homeless, or have to skip meals, or wear plastic carrier bags inside their shoes/boots because they're not waterproof and they can't afford to get more, not get a much needed prescription because they can't get to Drs or can't afford prescription fee. Who've NEVER worked a real job - in many cases have gone straight from uni (with no debt) to parliament. Yet for NO good reason think they know better than hcps, social workers, debt advisors, social care managers, housing officers etc how those of us not born with a silver spoon up our pampered arses should live!

@uniquack Until 2 weeks ago, I was a support worker for an organisation working in homelessness. All the councils in the county (this is in the SE) will deliver a very bleak message to people presenting as homeless, to discourage those who are trying it on and motivate those who are able to sort themselves out.

They move families out of B&B as quickly as possible and place them in "long-term" temporary accommodation. This can be properties leased from private landlords or council/HA property that is in hard to let areas or earmarked for redevelopment at some time in the future.
The neighbouring city council has had families in leased property for over 10 years, so these can be very long term lets. And they are more secure than a private tenancy.

I'd persevere with the council if I was in your shoes, unless the council was one of the London boroughs where families spend years in B&B.

Get all the supporting evidence you can about your daughter's problems and the particular adverse impact of change on her behaviour etc, that will help no end. Get Children's Services involved, they can be a powerful voice in these situations.

I'm really sorry you're having to go through this. I've seen first hand what it does to families.

concise
I split chunks of my childhood between Germany and England in the 80s and my (non European) DF used to say that the devastation of infrastructure and leadership in Germany post WWII had forced them to rebuild from the bottom up.
Whereas the UK never really recovered from winning the war.

Can't we keep the discussion adult? Slinging around terms like "numpty" and "lefties" is so childish.

Who thinks skilled workers earn a living wage? Certainly not me.

But then ginger I suspect you've only gone for me because I supported Helena in the face of your deeply nasty personal attacks (which you're still persevering with!)

We cannot keep swallowing the dangerous myth that poverty is due to lack of responsibility

It is though for the most part. No government is responsible for the choices an adult makes, that's down to the individual. Sadly, the children usually follow the same path as their role model and it continues.

There will always be a small number of people that can't do any work whatsoever due to disabilities. However the number that can't actually improve their circumstances is very small. Many simply don't want too as it's easier to claim benefits, moan that it's not enough and whichever political party they are against is to blame.

It's not hard to look at the salary you earn and then work out where you can afford to live, if you can afford children, afford to work part time etc. However these questions don't even factor for most, they plough ahead with their wants regardless then blame others.

I had a discussion with someone about "deserving" and "undeserving" poor and as far as they were concerned the undeserving were those who refused to work or worked "on the side" which they claimed "loads do".

"Undeserving" is defined by whoever uses the term.

When I hospital last I was accused of benefit fraud by the staff who would frequently tell me I should get a job or go to college to get some qualifications. That they were sick of seeing people who were just scroungers that didn't want to work and lived off their wages.

When I said I did work they said I was lying. I worked in the same hospital I was admitted to where staff insisted I stopped for my health and ten years later accused of benefit fraud. They refused to accept I was disabled or my conditions even existed.

I've not had dwp assessments for a long time other than the forms because I am that ill. But they wouldn't accept that and claimed I was bullying my GP into giving me letters to con the dwp. Even if I did bully my GP - never ever going to happen, believe me, what about the specialists? Consultants? Physios? OTs? I've supposedly conned them too.

The night before I left the nurses sat at the station and tore me apart for being what is wrong with society these days, it was really nasty and everyone in my bay heard it. They claimed my notes say I've nothing wrong with me and I'm a pathological lazy liar who had never worked - I installed their fucking IT network and fought for them to have computers at all, without me they'd have been closed down as not big enough to be allowed IT funding at the time. But no, I just happened to have found out I have the same name...

I was devastated. After I left I complained (which was rejected on the grounds I had no independent witnesses) and got my notes from the admission they'd been referring to - it turned out that they'd only requested the last volume which was 18 months worth and didn't bother with the rest which had all the proof of my conditions in. What they did have was a load of prejudiced crap from a psychiatrist saying as a borderline I couldn't possibly have worked or got qualifications and just wanted benefits.

Yes someone reported me because of it. Whether it was staff or another patient I'll never know and yes my consultants and specialists when they found out stood up for me but it was too late by then.

When I left I swore I'd never ever go back.

So, "undeserving" means different things to different people.

Had they looked into my notes and bothered to ask current IT staff in the department how they knew me as they kept popping in to chat I would have been "deserving".

However, the point isn't who is and isn't deserving, the point is there should be no deserving or undeserving. Illness and unemployment can happen to anyone at anytime. Anyone can become a single parent. Anyone can become an ill single parent. Anyone can become unemployed because they're fired (that's undeserving so no benefits for you!), made redundant (you'll need to provide proof of why no settlement and how hard you've tried to get one), get ill and meet the governments criteria of what they've decided you need to do to manage work (which is about as realistic as an episode of Eastenders).

But of course The Genuine get protected. People like my best friend who two years ago got a letter telling her as she hadn't died yet her money was stopping and she was being investigated for benefit fraud -she had terminal cancer and died on Christmas Eve. They wouldn't hear about appeal as there was no appeal, she was to have died by 18/11/2016 and hadn't.

There are people for whom the system works but it's much easier to blame everyone and whittle it away. The suffering is ignored or seen as a tiny percentage so it doesn't matter. I had an email this week before the benefits minister quit again saying how much sanctions for the disabled helped them to get out to work so they're staying as its unfair to exclude the disabled from sanction.

I'm rural. We have one jobcentre in my county now. It's impossible to get that jobcentre from most of the county within an hour even if you drive and break speed limits. The number of sanctions here is very very high, the supposed number in work is very very high, dwp say they want what happens here rolled out elsewhere. I say supposed. If you stop claiming ESA or JSA or UC you're considered to be in work. Personally I'd like to see a more accurate breakdown of that statistic I do not believe for one minute all those people are in work as claimed. There simply aren't enough jobs here. Some move away, some give up because they cannot cope or manage. Internet here is bloody awful too (and I'm including broadband, lots of places have none and mobiles barely work -when 3G is switched off ill no longer have mobile or Internet as 4g doesn't work here) so making everything online excludes a lot of the county as well.

The number of disabled who cannot improve their circumstances is not small at all. The definition of disabled proves that. Every day activities are impacted every day.

It was the government who decided that disabled people could improve their lives enough to work around 2006 when they bought in ESA concentrating on what a person could do not what they couldn't and when that wasn't reflected in the assessments they changed the criteria. Every six months they change it so it appears disabled people are improving and moving into work.

When I was beginning my PhD a senior lecturer told me "statistics can show whatever you want so you work out what you want them to say first" and, he was right.

My last ESA form said ESA is a temporary benefit because work is what disabled people need. There was even a link to a study proving it. A study funded by the dwp.

They've repeatedly been caught lying about disabled people moving into work and forced to apologise to their own committee.

If it was true then there would have been no need to change the criteria all the time.

PIP was to save 20% off the DLA bill. It hasn't because there were a lot of people on life long benefit too afraid to report changes who have had their benefit put up on the transfer.

Makes me wonder as to the true reason for brexit.

Human rights are an intergrated factor within the EU ideals. Our human rights are being disabled by our government. No more legal aid for most whom can not afford (eg women needing to leave toxic partnerships, financially abusive partners), the roll out of UC plunging mainly women with children into futher poverty.

Seems as though our country is going the way of America when we should infact be seeking to be a part of Europe as we are infact European.

The povety in this country yry is going to get worse, along with the dismanteling of our social infrastructure, NHS, education, social security, etc.

Surely though that's a good thing, seeing what work can and cannot be done. My best friends child has a disability but she still wants him to have a life and career, it may not be a dream career but he shouldn't be written off simply because of his condition.

I meant more people in general (on benefits) not just the one group you have mentioned. Plenty could but it's easier not too. How many times do we hear it's not worth me working or increasing my hours as I want to keep my benefits.

"It is though for the most part. No government is responsible for the choices an adult makes, that's down to the individual" please explain how redundancy due to your company going bust (usually due to the failing economy - where I live half the 'high street' is boarded up and we've lost several major employers either they've gone bust it transferred overseas to where workers are much cheaper) is an individual's fault? Or being bereaved of partner/spouse? Or needing to become a carer to a sick/disabled child or partner/spouse? Or becoming sick/disabled yourself? Or becoming a single parent because your spouse/partner leaves or is abusive?

TBBR - actually the reverse is true. (Most claimants workshy v most claimants in "deserving need")

It's very much a minority that chooses not to work always has been and under the new regime this is even less likely the case.

If you're officially classed as a jobseeker you have to prove - via online searches & applications, written proof of rejections etc that prove you're spending 35 hours a week working on getting a job. Anyone who doesn't do this is sanctioned.

Even people who have part time work have to make that up to 35 hours of looking either for a full time job eg if they have a 20 hour per week job they have to spend 15 hours a week looking to fill that gap.

People are being sanctioned if they're unconscious in hospital and that's why they've not attended appointments ffs!

"However the number that can't actually improve their circumstances is very small." Proof please for this "actual" claim?

"It's not hard to look at the salary you earn and then work out where you can afford to live, if you can afford children, afford to work part time etc." And what about the ACTUAL very MANY public sector workers who DID act responsibly and choose somewhere they could afford to live etc who've been screwed 2 ways - pay freezes and increased living costs? That's why we've got nurses needing to go to food banks - which is frankly bloody shameful!

Also - people's circumstances change. When I had dd I was married, working full time, healthy. I could not have predicted my ex cheating & leaving, while I was a sahm at his insistence and due to our location at the time (he was army we were out in the sticks), I worked/studied/worked after the split, then was involved in a serious car accident (someone else's fault, again not predictable), as well as causing a physical disability it was the straw that broke the camels back as far as my mh was concerned and a few weeks after I had my first breakdown. Honestly, I've not really been well since. Then several years after that dd had her own disability finally dx.

So do please tell me exactly what I did wrong to have sleepless nights (really not helping the mh) wondering how the fuck I'm going to cope when brexit & UC migration are possibly going to hit me within a month of each other?! And what magic fucking wand you have for me to deal with that?!

Becca I'm so sorry that all happened to you.

"How many times do we hear it's not worth me working or increasing my hours as I want to keep my benefits." Never once heard that in real life.

I mistakenly thought I was well enough to go back to work last year (a weird effect of my mh is that when I'm doing a bit better I can be overly optimistic), I applied for over 200 jobs - all of which I could have done standing on my head in terms of qualifications and experience - 3 replies, and one of them was automated!

I'd had help with my cv and letters and some of those jobs were supposed to be aimed at getting people out of work long term back into work.

I believe it was a combination of lots of applicants (several online job sites allow you to see how many people have applied for positions - often the number of applicants for one job was well into 100's), and employers reluctant to take on people long term unemployed ESPECIALLY when the reason is mainly mental illness. I had the support of a sort of work coach and they were well aware that certain employers in the area "never take on anyone with any kind of disability" yes it's illegal - but proving it is damn hard!

It's VERY Much an employers market right now.

Oh and that is not including the self id bullshit, the extermination of womens and girls rights. Which is prevelent in the US as well as UK, whilst EU countries are scratching their heads saying WTF!!!

Can't we keep the discussion adult? Slinging around terms like "numpty" and "lefties" is so childish.

And not to mention swearing at other posters, telling them to 'FOAD', which is also against Talk Guidelines, but again, what can one expect from someone who hangs onto Victorian notions like 'undeserving poor' that caused untold misery and deaths for thousands.

thebigbang honestly? These days where I live I don't hear that anymore. Our jobcentre is extremely strict, now there's a three hour radius for looking for work. No one wants to be on benefits and being on ESA you can spend your life being reassessed. I'm reassessed every three months.

There's a world of difference between what the government say you can work with and what the world of work expects from you.

I'm not saying for a moment your friends DS should be written off, or anyone else but you don't get to choose your job that's just not realistic and many disabled people may have some work they could do but the jobcentre often don't accept those restrictions - many years ago I was sent for an interview working a crane in docks I can barely walk and lose consiousness several times a week! I was also sent to work in a supermarket despite them knowing I couldn't lift things. It was humiliating and demeaning. But I'd gone past the twelve week mark and needed to apply for everything and accept what was given to me. Even in work I had problems as I can't have children and was single I was forced to do all the extra shifts no one else wanted - my disability meant I didn't have extra functioning to spare but that was ignored by my NHS employer and gradually I lost more and more functioning. I paid for someone to get my food etc because I only had strength for my two days a week in work. It was dreadful.

I hope he can work and he can earn enough to support himself but I think there must be a safety net and I feel that's been whittled away.

BigBang.. Its not hard to look at the salary you earn and work out you cant afford to live. What next? Euthanasia booths?

Longwayoff - the rise in suicides rather suggests people are taking exactly that option. Sometimes as a way of ensuring their children are taken out of poverty - how fucking awful is that?!

Longway, exaggeration much??

Although it highlights the point that some people live within their means and some feel the world owes it to them to finance their choices.

Gone seem to be the days for many when they shared a house, worked two jobs etc. Now its seems to be a case of people demanding x, y and z because they made poor choices and don't feel it's down to them to finance or correct the situation. Easier to moan than to roll up sleeves and put the hard work in.

i had two part time jobs years ago and it was a lot of hard work, far worse than one full time. HMRC gave me emergency tax code until I could prove my earnings and both employers would ask me to work outside my agreed days, what was once a one off became a massive problem and in the end I had to resign from one post. The assumption was very much I had the other days off and was doing nothing at all as I was single with no children (my job shares were married with children).

I can't imagine trying on zero hour contract to do that.