To think this woman was ridiculous

[lastqueenofscotland]

I am leaving my job and am helping interview for my replacement.

Just had an interview with a lady and were just confirming that everyone is expected to work one Saturday a month and there is some overtime (paid at 1.5x hourly rate) certain months of the year.
The woman said that wouldn’t work for her and we were like “oh it was in the job description” and she puffs out her chest and declares loudly
“But I am a mother I can’t believe you have NO flexibility for this.”

Colleague who is the mother of 4 inc an 18 month year old had to seriously bite her tongue.

It’s really annoyed me and I can’t work out why

It states quite explicitly in the job description for my role that weekends, lates and bank holidays are worked on a rota and it is part of the role. It is discussed at interview where the panel reiterate it is part of the role and check that the candidate is able to take part in the rota.

It is staggering the amount of people who take the role and then seem shocked when they are put on the rota after training. They come up with all kinds of excuses about childcare and family time and think they can get away with giving all of the unsocial shifts away [hmmm].

Dark it is odd isn’t it.
My friend as a junior doctor which everyone knows is shifts and someone tried to kick off because they go to their mums for dinner every night

I’ve never seen anyone puff their chest out despite it being a well known phrase. What does it look like?

My work had one person refusing to wear the uniform and dictating her hours at the interview. They still offered her the job(?) but she turned down the position.

The extreme self-confidence was obviously an attractive quality.

Why is it strange to interview people for a job you're leaving? I would think because you have no motivation to choose the best person. Typically interviewers check whether they would want to work alongside this candidate but that would be irrelevant here.

This is amusing. Does she think she is the only person who has children?

It's bad practice to interview people for your job you're leaving

Tosh. It's great practice - given that the leaver is the only one who really knows what the job entails and who would fill it well, plus it gives the candidate the chance to ask specific questions and see what kind of person has previously suited.

Only bad practice if the person is leaving in an acrimoniuos situation.

Well hopefully your soon to be ex colleagues have been spared having to work with this annoying woman. No doubt she would also have been demanding every Christmas off, first choice of Summer leave, and the right to be excused from any late afternoon meetings because she is a MOTHER.

I agree with a pp. It's people like her who give working mothers a bad name.

She must have a very high opinion of herself to think you'd employ her in a role where she's refusing to do half of what is required!

SHE needs to sort her flexibility out if she wants an actual job...

Well she did sound a bit looney going for a job that involved weekend work when she didnt want to work weekends

FWIW..I dotn want to work weekends as my OH works and I dont want to leave DS. So instead of working as a permanent member of staff where I would be required, I work agency so I can pick and choose.

She should rethink

I used to work in a call centre where shifts could be 24/7 (I tended not to get the part-night ones, as I relied on public transport). This was made plain during recruitment. It was amazing how many people rang in unable to come in on a Sunday morning --demographics were towards the under-30s, mostly single. Despite relying on infrequent trains for my commute, I suddenly became the 'reliable' one that got asked to fill the gap.

There was a court case (tribunal?) back in the early Noughties, about a case somewhat similar to this. Woman took police support job that required evening/ weekend working, then kicked off because either they wouldn't let her not do the unsocial shifts or agreed but removed the unsocial hours element of her pay (can't remember which)she was a single parent. With the help of her union, she took it to court on sex discrimination grounds (woman more likely to be a primary carer, therefore in need of not doing unsocial hours)and won. The union next said they were looking forwards to being able to represent a complaint from a father on SD grounds, on the basis that it was unfair because amended hours would be allowed if he was a mother...

she is ridiculous

But surely an interview is just a transaction? She wasn't intrinsically wrong to ask for flexibility.

Every day of the week people go for interviews and negotiate on the salary, hours, location or terms and conditions of the role. If they are a good candidate, the employer might agree. If the employer has lots of people who could do the role, then they probably won't.

Her phrasing was a bit grating, but I don't think she was wrong to ask if there was flexibility in the hours.

I did turn down a job once that required Saturday work.
They told me it was Saturdays twice a month, which was fine. But I refused when they said that there was no over time or a day off in the week extra.
Like fuck was I working 6 days a week for that.

This happens all the time, another one is people wanting part time when it’s a full
Time job

There was a court case (tribunal?) back in the early Noughties, about a case somewhat similar to this. Woman took police support job that required evening/ weekend working, then kicked off because either they wouldn't let her not do the unsocial shifts or agreed but removed the unsocial hours element of her pay (can't remember which)she was a single parent. With the help of her union, she took it to court on sex discrimination grounds (woman more likely to be a primary carer, therefore in need of not doing unsocial hours)and won. The union next said they were looking forwards to being able to represent a complaint from a father on SD grounds, on the basis that it was unfair because amended hours would be allowed if he was a mother...

I think it was a tube driver, because she was an acquaintance of a colleague. Apparently, the person concerned was described as a pain in the rear as an individual, but the case set the precedent that employers need to take account of caring responsibilities - which I suspect that many parents on MN benefit from today.

This happens all the time, another one is people wanting part time when it’s a full Time job

I had the opposite when I was recruiting to replace myself. We offered the role part time with flexibility on days/hours etc, I got about 100 applicants and I checked with each one that they knew it was part time. Quite a few said they hadn't realised and withdrew (all the male candidates bar one......) and one said "yes, but I was hoping I could negotiate full time at the interview". Um, no, sorry, it really doesn't work like that!

Her phrasing was a bit grating, but I don't think she was wrong to ask if there was flexibility in the hours.

(My emphasis). Well, it's precisely that she didn't ask, but declared.

Also, if you want to negotiate on hours, the time to do it is usually way before it gets to the interview stage. Most job adverts have a contact where you can ask about stuff like this before applying. That way, at least you know if your proposed working pattern is a runner before getting to the stage of taking up the company's (and your own) time stating you'll only work a pattern that was completely out of the question. I once rang about a job ad that mentioned having a driving licence, as I didn't: turned out it was in respect of occasional house visits

I think it was a tube driver

May have been more than one case then, because the one I remember was definitely police. I remember it because one of my colleagues was supportive of the judgment, with "Well, the police need to move into the 21st century..." --and thinking, let's see if she keeps this tune when she needs something from the cops that relies on 24/7 support cover and they aint got it...

I was once sent by the job centre for an interview. I got half way through the interview when they told me the hours were evening and nights. I apologised and said that as a single parent i wouldn't be able to get childcare for that, which the job centre knew.

My jobs coach grudgingly agreed not to sanction me for not taking a job I had no childcare cover for, but that next time it would be no excuse.

That lady sounds like she was a bit rude about it though and thought you would change the hours for her because you would want to hire her so badly.

She didn't get it. She told us this story herself, btw, to illustrate how child unfriendly some businesses are.

I don't think a business not wanting a 2 and 3 year old in the office is necessarily "child unfriendly". There are all sorts of implications, starting with who is responsible for them while the parent works ? And insurance ...

These things sometimes happen when you’re expected to do something outside what you think the role entails. I can’t go to Yemen: I’m an analyst

Sounds like you get pay for this rather than a day off at another time but if you did get another day off I’d love that. Once a month a weekday off with no kids! Think of what you could do.