Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this woman was ridiculous

281 replies

lastqueenofscotland · 16/11/2018 12:22

I am leaving my job and am helping interview for my replacement.

Just had an interview with a lady and were just confirming that everyone is expected to work one Saturday a month and there is some overtime (paid at 1.5x hourly rate) certain months of the year.
The woman said that wouldn’t work for her and we were like “oh it was in the job description” and she puffs out her chest and declares loudly
“But I am a mother I can’t believe you have NO flexibility for this.”

Colleague who is the mother of 4 inc an 18 month year old had to seriously bite her tongue.

It’s really annoyed me and I can’t work out why

OP posts:
Aria999 · 20/11/2018 15:22

Understood blaa- I'm only talking about things that don't have that structure really. Your place hired the people to do the hours it needed - that's necessary.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 20/11/2018 15:35

You'd be surprised how many people still think they can get out of the unsociable hours just because they have children.

Aria999 · 20/11/2018 15:43

As a thought experiment- if those people offered to take a pay cut to get out of the hours and offered the difference to anyone who would pick up the extra, would it work at your place? Or would there be no takers? Sorry brief replies now as ds trying to grab my phone lol

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 20/11/2018 15:52

It's just doesn't work like that. The majority of parents worked part time anyway - which was fine but the expectation was that on your working days you could be asked to start early, work an evening and travel occasionally. There were also a number of Saturdays that the whole team had to work - no exceptions. Any hours worked above your contacted hours were banked as flexi time to be taken at a time that suited you ( providing you weren't booked to go anywhere)

When staff tried to get out of working unsociable hours it just caused resentment.

MadameButterface · 20/11/2018 15:56

I have dc and I love working Saturdays

would much rather be at work than on swiming lesson/shoe shopping/minecraft tech support detail tbh

DGRossetti · 20/11/2018 16:00

I think, write large, this thread shows up gulf between the fine words of successive governments (I can go back to Thatcher, others maybe further) and their actual actions when it comes to "supporting families".

lyndar · 20/11/2018 16:26

@lastqueenofscotland do you not realise that childcare facilities are not open on the weekend and that child minders don't work weekends and shock horror -some mums have no partner or no family or friends to look after their children on weekends

lyndar · 20/11/2018 16:27

The ignorance on here is shocking -like some mothers can leave toddlers or young c children on their own -this has to be a joke thread

Aria999 · 20/11/2018 16:53

More government support would certainly be helpful. I think it would also be great if the government could help and incentivise companies that want to have a flexible working structure.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 20/11/2018 16:55

Many organisations have a flexible working policies but some people interpret flexible working for 'hours that suit my individual needs'

DGRossetti · 20/11/2018 16:59

More government support would certainly be helpful. I think it would also be great if the government could help and incentivise companies that want to have a flexible working structure.

Yeah well, maybe in the next 30 years, because it hasn't happened in the last 30.

Aria999 · 20/11/2018 17:15

I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with people wanting hours that suit them as long as it doesn't cause unfairness to other people. (I know you said at your place it does). But it feels like there's an attitude in some places (I don't mean you blaa) that working inconvenient hours somehow makes you a better person...

mathanxiety · 21/11/2018 06:58

There are fewer flexible roles available because there is often less business need for it and why should employers create reduced hours flexible roles when in fact a full time employee is of more value?

1 - How do you gauge 'less business need'?

2 - If the issue of women appearing for interviews and stating they can't fill the hours envisioned is a widespread problem (it is apparently notable enough for someone to take a pop at women for doing it) then maybe there really is a need for business to take a look at changing their personnel management model that is based on the assumption that all of their employees have a wife doing unpaid labour in the home.

(Or could it be that this thread is actually an open invitation to child-hating misogynists near and far to emerge from the woodwork and spew bile? Hmmmmm....)

3 - Is a full time employee really of more value?

To allow women to live off benefits, making little or no effort to change that and only being asked to attend interviews on the rare occasion a coveted flexible role comes available 🤔. There are fewer flexible roles available because there is often less business need for it and why should employers create reduced hours flexible roles when in fact a full time employee is of more value? I understand a high proportion of Britain believing the government ‘owes’ them XY&Z 😒 but surely that braizen entitlement can’t extend as far as private businesses and companies?

Wow.

Well I am not going to discuss the attitude towards the unemployed here...

However, I can't resist pointing out the shocking-to-the-point-of-gobsmacking lack of joined up thinking you demonstrate:

  • How much less would the national welfare bill be if business offered more flexible hours and mothers could earn an income instead of relying on benefits?
  • How much less would the NHS bill be for psychological/emotional issues and related physical health problems if women were able to earn and hold down a PT job that would translate into experience on a CV that would in turn offer them the promise of FT down the road?
  • There are many women who are effectively excluded from the workforce while children are young and only manage to get jobs that pay NMW or thereabouts after a long period of unemployment. These are women who pay no taxes while unemployed and pay only a little (if at all) once (if) they manage to get some very low paid employment. How does maintaining such a cohort of non-taxpayers benefit either those individuals or the taxpayers who are paying for the benefits?
  • In the long run, how does it benefit business to have a cohort of the population depending on benefits and who can barely make ends meet? Consumers are important.
  • How much does the taxpayer currently spend on student loans that are never going to be repaid because the university graduates are never going to meet the income threshold?

Every single thing that goes around comes around.

I am not surprised to see so little evidence of any background knowledge of basic economics here.
It's always disappointing though, that so few seem to have even read Dickens.

Perhaps you should consider also ‘shaming’ women who are wilfully and intentionally irresponsible with their vaginas, expecting and feeling entitled to this becoming ‘society’s/the governments fault’!
What an execrable sentiment.

continuallychargingmyphone · 21/11/2018 07:57

Math

I agree with every word.

onefootinthegrave · 21/11/2018 08:05

Me too math , every word.

As for the person somewhere that asked you something and you didn't reply straightaway and they replied something like Ha! NOW she goes quiet - actually I think it was probably because she's just not on MN 24 hours a day, like most of us. Where are you now?

onefootinthegrave · 21/11/2018 08:08

That was coughlaughfart who wrote that daft response, just because she didn't get a response straightaway.

CoughLaughFart · 21/11/2018 09:12

‘Straightaway, or dc

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 21/11/2018 09:15

(Or could it be that this thread is actually an open invitation to child-hating misogynists near and far to emerge from the woodwork and spew bile

Childless women asking to be treated as equals in the workplace to parents, not wanting all the unsociable hours and getting fed up with always being the people to cover for when a parent can't be at work and never having their needs met are not child hating misogynists. We are just people who, for some reason, do not have children.

CoughLaughFart · 21/11/2018 09:17

Or eight hours. What’s the difference eh?

I don’t expect anyone to be on MN 24/7. I do get a bit suspicious when someone who has been replying within seconds to several other posters suddenly disappears - and then fails to address my points when they do return.

MaybeDoctor · 21/11/2018 09:27

I actually think we should roll-back from the idea that commercial services are available 24/7, in order to facilitate family life.

Hospitals and emergency services, yes. Shops, call centres and offices? No.

My local coop is open from 6.00 to 23.00 seven days a week. I just went in there at 8.30 and there were 2-3 people in the shop, plus three members of staff. I struggle to believe that there are many people there between 6.00 and 8.30. My purchase wasn't even essential - if the shop hadn't been open I would have just shrugged my shoulders and gone home.

I hate to think of people being put under pressure to work those stupid hours (probably on some kind of zero-hours arrangement) just so someone can saunter in and buy a non-essential item at any time that takes their fancy.

There are some items that you might need out of hours, but I noticed on holiday this summer that pharmacies (Spain) had vending machines outside selling nappies, painkillers, condoms, formula and a couple of other medicines.

As a society we seem to have completely lost sight of what is important.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 21/11/2018 09:33

It's actually a complete myth that we all now work in 24/7 industries. The traditional 9-5 working pattern is still most common by a significant margin.
There are some sectors and specific jobs that fall outside of this but on the whole, as a society, we are still working 9-5.

DGRossetti · 21/11/2018 10:38

The traditional 9-5 working pattern is still most common by a significant margin.

And getting more so.

PurpleDaisies · 21/11/2018 11:00

Childless women asking to be treated as equals in the workplace to parents, not wanting all the unsociable hours and getting fed up with always being the people to cover for when a parent can't be at work and never having their needs met are not child hating misogynists. We are just people who, for some reason, do not have children.

This is absolutely right. When I used to work in an industry that required 24/7 365 days a year cover, I always got horrible guilt trips to swap so mums didn’t have to work Christmas Day. It was hardly ever that they didn’t have childcare (more understandable), it was just that they wanted to spend time with their children. I wanted to spend time with my family bit because mine didn’t include children, apparently that wasn’t good enough. Luckily I’m not in that industry any more but from the threads that op up on here, that sort of thing is still far too common.

Tinklewinkle · 21/11/2018 13:09

My local coop is open from 6.00 to 23.00 seven days a week. I just went in there at 8.30 and there were 2-3 people in the shop, plus three members of staff. I struggle to believe that there are many people there between 6.00 and 8.30

I used to work in our village shop and 6-8:30am was one of our busiest times

People coming in on their way to work/home from a night shift. People popping in for stuff for packed lunches, etc, etc.

Milk/newspaper/bread/fresh food deliveries were all received during this time so they could be sorted and out on the shelves.

It’s not just how many customers, but all the other stuff that needs to be done so that when Mr X comes in for his pint of milk and newspaper at 9am, it’s all on the shelves

MaybeDoctor · 21/11/2018 20:31

I can see that might be true for a village shop, but this is a Co-op in a small town with another supermarket convenience store, a small supermarket, a large supermarket and an independent corner shop. All in or near the town centre.