AIBU potty training nursery

[AriadneAnemone]

DD is 2.9 months and still in nappies. She is supposed to be moving up to the 'big' room at nursery nearer her 3rd birthday and her nursery have said they don't do nappies in the big room. They told me to bring in trousers and nickers to nursery next week so they can start getting her used to using the toilet and "of course she will have accidents but she is ready".

I expressed that I didn't think she was ready and manager was adamant she was.

Reasons I don't think she's ready - refuses/cries when put on the potty or toilet, has never yet done a wee in the potty when we have had a go at training in the past few months (she is at nursery 3 half days, so we have most of the week to ourselves to do this), and doesn't tell us when she has wet herself or her nappy.

She might say "oh, look, wee" if she hasn't got a nappy on and gets wet knickers and leggings, but it doesn't bother her, iyswin? She won't ask to be changed out of them. Similarly with a poo/wee nappy, she isn't bothered about sitting in it. She doesn't show any interest in potty training at all. Even when the potty is right in front of her and she only has knickers on (and we've practised pulling up and down and she can more or less do that herself), she will just wee herself, and then the next time the same, and the next, and when we ask her to use the potty next time she needs one she just says "no" and has even picked up her potty and thrown it before out of frustration.

Therefore I just don't think she's "there" yet but the nursery are telling me that she is, and the tone of voice they use with me and expressions makes it seem like they think I'm being neglectful or holding her back, but I don't think it's fair to send her in to nursery when she has never successfully used a potty, just for her to wee and poo herself. She doesn't seem to know when she will wee?

What do you think? Are they being unreasonable to tell me I need to do this right now? I was waiting for the signs of readiness that my family nurse told me to look for, and I don't see them yet.

I held off until my dd was comfortably ready a 3.5 and she was dry in 3 days. Hasnt had an accident since. Up until that point she just wasnt ready. No harm in waiting until she is absolutely ready

lift for a wee at 11pm

This is also not recommended by confidence experts.

continence....not confidence!

Starutopia. You’re a right little bossy boots aren’t you?

It sounds like nursery have their own agenda for wanting to do the toilet training now!

My ds was resistant to toilet training completely. He would not be reminded to try and go, wasn't bothered about wetting, he was not bothered that his friends used the toilet and he didn't etc. Our few attempts at training were shortlived but stressful.

We carried on reading potty training books and talking about it from time to time in a low key way. A week after he turned three he announced he would not wear nappies again now that he 'was big' and that was that. No accidents ever. No stress for either of us.

I really don't see what harm 'waiting' does. It's not really a hassle changing nappies and if your child is happy then isn't that all that matters?
Don't let other people pressure you unless you are happy it's what you want too. I'm commenting to balance out the previous posts indicating that you are already 'too late' to be doing this. I disagree. Good luck either way.

I'm pleased your daughter has managed to wee in the potty but i'm still shocked at how they have just pushed their wishes onto you, without taking your daughter's needs and development into account.

That's playing on my mind a bit this evening. I'll see how their feedback is next week and take it from there. They've been really good in other aspects, this was a bit of a curveball from them tbh. I mean, yes I was expecting it, but I was already thinking that I would try her again during the Xmas holidays as she wouldn't have nursery and I thought it would be better for her to feel comfortable trying at home before she tried in that environment - she has only just began to eat their food since Oct and she has been there since April... Then she would go back in January. we've always tried to time previous tries with half terms and the summer holidays and such so she would have a consistent environment to get used to it.

Anyway, thank you all, and of course if I don't see her improving I'll speak with them again.

DS suddenly became dry when he had pull-ups with Mickey Mouse on. He really didn't want to wet on Mickey!
This thread really shows how different children are about toilet training.

Go and speak to nursery properly about what they think is going to happen

Take a week off work (if at all possible) and don't go out anywhere unless absolutely necessary. Focus on potty training

Try going straight to a seat on the loo, skipping the potty

I really don't think it's nursery's role to tell you how to raise your child - some decisions, such as potty training, are yours to make.

Every child is different - so you're going to have to go with your own instinct here.

For what it's worth, my little boy went from zero interest in potty training to being ready virtually overnight. One morning he announced he didn't want to wear a nappy. So I cranked up the heating and made him stay bare bottomed for a day, and watched like a hawk. I had a potty within arm's reach all day. A couple of mini accidents later, he got the hang of it. The next morning, he refused to put on a nappy for nursery. Had about one accident a day for three or four days, then it was fine.

So in our case, waiting till our little boy was ready worked a treat. We just did the exact same thing again this week weaning him off his nighttime dummy. He said he was ready, so we went with it.

I would say: don't let anyone tell you what's right for your child. Trust your instincts.

oh dear some of the posters on this thread need to get a grip.

A 3 year old still in nappies is not a cause for concern. In fact a friend of mine got her son out of nappies at 2y 9m.. He’s now 4 and in reception and still having regular accidents. Bless her, she wishes she’d left it a few more months.

We tried with DS1 just before he was 3 and after a week he just hadn’t got it really so we went back to nappies. DS2 was born a few weeks later so we left it for a while then a couple of months later we did it. I told him in advance that from x day he wouldn’t be wearing nappies anymore, that nappies were for babies and from now on he would be using the potty like a big boy. Lots of accidents in the first few days then after a week he just got it. Dry at night a couple of months later.

I guess he was pretty late, who cares? As long as they are dry before starting school who cares when that is. They all hit milestones at different times.

As for nursery, it is probably because the staff to child ratio is different for 3 year olds. I think it is 1:4 for 2 year olds and 1:8 for 3 year olds? So it is more inconvenient for the staff to change nappies but not impossible. In DS1’s preschool room most of the kids are trained but some of them are definitely still in nappies. They have a small changing area. They manage.

Hope you are ok op, and your little one gets on well in the new room
For what it’s worth I’m a total advocate of waiting til theyre ready. In my experience the people who do it ‘early’ are the ones who have to take time off work and have constant accidents and have to bribe / cajole / threaten etc and it becomes a massive drama.
Obviously this is only my experience, I’m sure there are loads of exceptions ;)
Best of luck

As a cm the biggest issue here seems to be she doesn’t want to sit on potty so would take it back a step. Get teddy to sit on potty , give teddy praise., get her to sit on potty clothed , praise, when your in bathroom do wee like mummy,.

I am shocked how much the nursery are pushing it. I think though it is about staffing ratio’s . If they go downstairs to change there ratio’s are down.

Everyone has to make their own call so I hesitate to say YABU, but... in my experience they don’t really “show readiness”. You just go for it, they wee and poo all over the floor for a few days and then like magic it gets better and they are trained.

One Friday morning, when he was 2yrs 11mths, DS1 got out of bed and told me he was wearing pants to nursery. We had had the potty and toilet seat around, been reading books, but letting him go at his own pace.

He never had an accident. Actually never used the potty, went straight onto the toilet. Never had any of the wee and poo on the floor some people want to go in for.

We’ve been despairing of DS2 who has been adamant that potty, toilet and pants are not for him. Until this evening (!) when he casually mentioned he wanted the toilet. Sat on the loo, did a wee, got a sticker and a chocolate button. Hoping it continues - don’t see any reason it won’t. He’s just turned 3.

OP, I wouldn’t be wild keen on the way your nursery goes about things, both with the potty training and with their approach to room changes.

The nursery's attitude is really shocking, do they dictate like this to every parent? Has all of this been told to you by room staff, or management? Or both?

A child not being ready for potty training at 2.9 is nothing unusual and in no way a cause for concern. All the ridiculous "train the child!" hyperbole in this thread like she's a puppy. What works for some children will not in any way work for others.

*One Friday morning, when he was 2yrs 11mths, DS1 got out of bed and told me he was wearing pants to nursery. We had had the potty and toilet seat around, been reading books, but letting him go at his own pace.

He never had an accident. Actually never used the potty, went straight onto the toilet. Never had any of the wee and poo on the floor some people want to go in for.

We’ve been despairing of DS2 who has been adamant that potty, toilet and pants are not for him. Until this evening (!) when he casually mentioned he wanted the toilet. Sat on the loo, did a wee, got a sticker and a chocolate button. Hoping it continues - don’t see any reason it won’t. He’s just turned 3.

OP, I wouldn’t be wild keen on the way your nursery goes about things, both with the potty training and with their approach to room changes.*

Thats great for you, but that doesn't mean it works like that for everybody. In fact I'd hazard a guess that it doesn't work like that for most parents.

in my opinion, many parents are clinging on to the "wait until they are ready" ideology as an excuse to leave potty training longer and longer. Cue a major battle of the wills with children aged 3+, which results in parents continuing to say "they are not ready" and the scenario goes on and on. People don't seem to get that you have to actually do something. A nudge in the right direction. "We are going to try and have a wee and then we will do painting." Not "do you want to try for a wee on your potty?" You are the parent. You are in charge of this situation.

You are the parent. You are in charge of this situation.

Yes, and since we are the parent, we get to decide what works best for our individual children. DS showed no interest at all, despite being offered the potty and being encouraged, until he was over three, then just came out one morning wearing jocks, and that was the end of that. Never used a potty, never had an accident, ever even got mentioned. He's been dry overnight since that day as well.

Isn't it amazing how all children are different and learn in different ways and parents get to decide what works best?

I see you’ve started training but just to put my 2 pence worth in your dd certainly sounds ready to me. Not every child will tick absolutely everything on a readiness checklist but if she’s holding wees in after her shower because she’s sat on the potty that certainly sounds like she has some awareness and control. Co-operation is generally the bit that takes a while longer! Best of luck anyway.

I think what we have to realize as a culture is that if we keep normalizing later and later toilet trainingnot for a small minority of children who are disabled, but as a creeping general trend for everyonethen it is going have knock-on effects.

To a certain extent, people who leave it late are effectively riding on the coat-tails of those who trained early, because they are making use of the fact that other children around their child trained earlier, creating a bit of positive peer pressure. But as more and more parents try leaving it later, then the age at which peer pressure will kick in will get later and later too, because each child is now surrounded by fewer toilet-trained peers and more nappy-wearing peers until greater ages. Vicious circle.

And our current adult:child ratios for nurseries (1:3 for 0-2yos, but 1:8 for 3yo and up, if I remember rightly) are based on the assumption that most children are out of nappies before they move into the 3yo's group and that it should only be the odd child with developmental delays who trains late. If, as a culture, we want to keep delaying and delaying the age of toilet training, we are going to have to seriously think about changing those ratios in order to ensure quality care, and that is going to require lots of money because staffing costs are THE biggest cost in childcare. The UK already has just about the most expensive childcare costs in the OECD--do we really want to make it every more expensive?

People who delay toilet training without good reasons are breaking the "but what if everyone did that?" rule, IMO. Nursery workers can deal with the odd older disabled child in nappies, but not when it starts to become more and more the norm.

My 3rd DC showed signs of readiness after 2 years but I was busy with her little brother and ignored them. She then refused to wear knickers or go anywhere near the toilet. When she was nearly 3 one of the workers at child care took me aside and said it was time. I was a bit taken aback but it was literally all done in about 5 days. She was only there 2 days a week as well.

So I wouldn’t personally be resistant to their involvement.

Mine showed not a jot of interest until 3.2 ; i had decided I would start panicking at about 3.5. I am not in a job where you can just take a week or even a day off. We had had a couple of unsuccessful attempts where i had realised after a few houts it was a fruitless exercise. But at 3.1 they suddenly developed an obsession with public toilets (not the nice clean one at home) and at 3.2 I said we'd do away with nappies, to which they said 'ok' and we had no accidents ever. Friends who tried earlier are still, 18 months on in some cases, undergoing up to 10 clothes changes a day. In my opinion they are ready when they are ready, 2.9 seems young still; most at mine's nursery were about 2.11 -3.3 and mainly accident free. I'm glad we waited.

"If you're not careful, you're going to have a child like the girl in my daughter's class - Year 1 and still wearing nappies for school. Also won't poo properly."

You seem to know an awful lot about another child's toileting habits and if you are a 'friend' of the parents I don't expect they would be happy about you talking in this way about their family.

To be honest, working in a preschool, I spend more time changing the clothes of and cleaning up children who went into pants younger, and seem to have more accidents...than I do changing children who are older and still in nappies. All families have different ways of doing things and all children are individuals.

There is a lot of hyperbole about 'older childten in nappies'. We are talking about 2 - 3.6 months ish, and within those ages most of the children will have learnt or be starting to use the toilet. There are children who struggle after this age, and of those there are nearly always reasons for the difficulty - difficulties at home, medical reasons, developmental delays and other additional needs...it should be remembered that for lots of preschool children some additional needs are only just becoming apparent.

It is perfectly within reason to expect early years staff to deal with the health and self care of children this young. It will be more difficult if there is more of a move towards school nurseries - which is what the government is pushing for....more formal learning from 2, higher ratios, less learning through play....I would not be any part of an early years system like that.

It is part of our jobs to support them in this area with dignity and respect, and to work with the families in this.

I’m thinking that maybe she is expressing interest in using the toilet at nursery while seeing what her peers are doing and the nursery need you to let them work with her. They won’t be able to do that unless she’s not wearing a nappy when she comes in. They are probably sending she’s resistant so asking you to be consistent by not using nappies at home either.

Children are different in different places, she might be resistant at home with you while showing the nursery staff every sign she is ready there.

Maybe give it a go, she might surprise you. Most children are dry around that age with odd accidents, however we’d never refuse a child the next nursery stage just because of being in nappies still.

I had a similar situation with DS but kept saying no. I asked him if he wanted to wear pants but he kept saying no, he wanted nappies. Nursery kept pushing it but I ignored and sent him in nappies still.

Eventually he said yes one day and that was pretty much that.

Stick to your guns and your gut instinct. If she's not showing signs then it's going to be a pain for all of you!

Thats great for you, but that doesn't mean it works like that for everybody. In fact I'd hazard a guess that it doesn't work like that for most parents.

Responding to the claim that there aren’t really signs of readiness, I pointed out that there are. Maybe most parents don’t give their kids a chance.