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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU potty training nursery

119 replies

AriadneAnemone · 16/11/2018 08:33

DD is 2.9 months and still in nappies. She is supposed to be moving up to the 'big' room at nursery nearer her 3rd birthday and her nursery have said they don't do nappies in the big room. They told me to bring in trousers and nickers to nursery next week so they can start getting her used to using the toilet and "of course she will have accidents but she is ready".

I expressed that I didn't think she was ready and manager was adamant she was.

Reasons I don't think she's ready - refuses/cries when put on the potty or toilet, has never yet done a wee in the potty when we have had a go at training in the past few months (she is at nursery 3 half days, so we have most of the week to ourselves to do this), and doesn't tell us when she has wet herself or her nappy.

She might say "oh, look, wee" if she hasn't got a nappy on and gets wet knickers and leggings, but it doesn't bother her, iyswin? She won't ask to be changed out of them. Similarly with a poo/wee nappy, she isn't bothered about sitting in it. She doesn't show any interest in potty training at all. Even when the potty is right in front of her and she only has knickers on (and we've practised pulling up and down and she can more or less do that herself), she will just wee herself, and then the next time the same, and the next, and when we ask her to use the potty next time she needs one she just says "no" and has even picked up her potty and thrown it before out of frustration.

Therefore I just don't think she's "there" yet but the nursery are telling me that she is, and the tone of voice they use with me and expressions makes it seem like they think I'm being neglectful or holding her back, but I don't think it's fair to send her in to nursery when she has never successfully used a potty, just for her to wee and poo herself. She doesn't seem to know when she will wee?

What do you think? Are they being unreasonable to tell me I need to do this right now? I was waiting for the signs of readiness that my family nurse told me to look for, and I don't see them yet.

OP posts:

Coldilox · 16/11/2018 09:49

My DS was about 3.5 when he was trained. We tried a few times before but he wasn’t ready - screamed and got really distressed when we didnt put a nappy on, and if he didn’t scream then he just peed on the floor. Our nursery were fine, said it was important to wait until they were ready and reassured us it wasn’t unusual. They encouraged him at nursery, took him to the toilet if they were taking other kids, let him join in with washing hands etc, but never forced it. He was certainly not the only one either, they told us that it wasn’t uncommon to have quite a few in pre-school class still in nappies and pull ups. They told us not to worry when we got stressed about it from all the judgement we got from elsewhere about him still being in nappies.

I’d be concerned about the nursery not giving a damn about the individual needs of your child and possibly be looking elsewhere if I were you.

And they can’t refuse provision based on him not being potty trained.

Original poster

AriadneAnemone · 16/11/2018 09:58

OP you say you are confused she doesn't notice being wet, they can't feel being wet in disposable nappies.

It's in knickers too, sometimes she just wees and carries on doing her thing and I only noticed when I see a puddle or that she has wet underwear on, or she will tell me to "look, wee" and she finds it funny that she's weed on the floor. But there seems to be no discomfort or anything relating to having weed herself per se.

Quite recently the last time we had a go, she pood her knickers and just carried on playing, and when I noticed the smell I changed her, but she didn't want me to take the knickers off. We showed her where it is supposed to go by putting it on her potty before it got flushed down the loo, and she started crying when it was in her potty.

When I told her that she was a big girl and going to wear knickers and use the toilet like mummy does (she always watches me, I've even shown her how to use her potty myself - pants down and sitting on it etc, we made a dancing game about wiggling to get the pants down etc and she loved it), she started crying and said no she didn't want to, she wants her nappy. She was kicking and crying when I put the knickers on.

I am just hoping the nursery will tell me if they think it's not working!!

OP posts:

poppstar35 · 16/11/2018 09:58

My son is 3.5 & shows no inclination to use the potty or toilet.

We’re not pushing him. We didn’t push with our eldest despite a friend trying with their same aged dc. They had loads of issues where as our eldest just took to it when he was ready.

We did the right thing waiting & not pushing, not making a big deal with our eldest so we’ll wait with our youngest too.

Luckily we have an excellent nursery who are more than happy to follow our lead rather than put demands on us.

Original poster

AriadneAnemone · 16/11/2018 10:02

Yes, I am feeling disheartened by the lack of flexibility in how they have approached this with me

OP posts:

Alsonification · 16/11/2018 10:39

I have been a childminder for over 18 years & a mother of 2 so I have trained many many children. Here are my tips;
DO NOT use pull ups of any kind!!!
Children will show readiness i.e. telling you when they’re dirty or wet, asking to use the potty/toilet themselves, etc
DO NOT try to train them before they’re ready as this will create a whole host of problems.
When they are ready to train stay home for at least 3 days. Put knickers/pants on. Keep reminding them every 30 mins & after drinks. If you have to go out at all DO NOT put them back in nappies or use pull ups. Bring spare clothes, wipes & if using a car seat line it with a towel. I also have a travel potty in my car.
If a child is ready they will train in 3 days for day training. Night training takes longer but the general rule is if they are dry for 3 nights in a row then take off the nappy at night. If they have 3 nights of accidents then nappy back on at night & repeat.
I have used these rules for all the children I’ve trained & they’ve never failed. I have had parents who’ve wanted to train earlier & it’s always a disaster.
Don’t allow the nursery to bully you into training your child before they’re ready. You are the parent & you decide.

Bibijayne · 16/11/2018 10:50

I was speaking at 5 months (first word at 4 months). Walking at 7 months. I did not fully give up nappies until my younger sister (18 months younger) declared she was done with them because she was a big girl now around 18 months old. The peer pressure got to me!

I guess my point is, different children do different things at different times. Not being fully potty trained by 3 is not a sign of developmental difficulties. The nursery really should go at your daughter's pace. No problem in them helping potty train her, but forcing her seems cruel.

Luxembourgmama · 16/11/2018 10:56

She might become more interested when she sees other kids going to the loo. My kid is 2y6mths and she's starting to get Interested as the other kids are more advanced and already toilet trained but I won't push her. I think you could reasonably ask that she has a month or so to get used to the big room before they push potty training on her.
Does she follow you to the loo at home? Would that encourage her? My kid says bravo to me when I go

BertramKibbler · 16/11/2018 10:59

I think it’s important to note that you CANNOT night train a child

MadeForThis · 16/11/2018 11:00

If she's screaming and crying when you put pants on then she isn't ready.

You could speak to Nursery and give them one week to try it. They won't want to deal with her screaming either. Or it could just click in a different environment.

MadeForThis · 16/11/2018 11:01

And throwing pull-ups away is ridiculous advice. You will need them for nights until her body naturally stops weeing at night.

andthelightshoneonandon · 16/11/2018 11:05

My son trained at 2.7 with absolutely no prior interest.

He’s five and would probably still be in nappies if I’d let him.

Barring any developmental issues, just train the child.

Original poster

AriadneAnemone · 16/11/2018 11:19

Sorry I have been busy, but just came back to say that I have been just been removed from the group chat for the toddler nursery group, and added to the big rooms group chat
Now I'm super confused because they said that would happen next year when she's 3 yesterday

OP posts:

IceRebel · 16/11/2018 19:00

Wow OP I would be talking to the nursery and reiterating that she is still in the toddler room and will be for a while yet, and you want adding back to the chat. I assume the chat is about events, birthdays and information about her current room, so to miss out on that for 3 months, particularly over the festive season is madness.

Sounds like the nursery really don't like deviating from their schedule, which isn't putting the children first.

Gemstonemama · 16/11/2018 19:12

I would say YANBU - if she isn't ready, she isn't ready! Trying to encourage toilet training before they are ready can lead to problems with toileting in future. It isn't simply a case of being old enough, in a different room, or peer pressure - it is individual development. She will do it when she's ready, you are right being child led! There's a brilliant book called the Gentle Potty Training book which is well worth a read and has some useful tips.

I'd be having a strong, but polite word with the nursery, otherwise your poor DD is in for a bewildering time being urged to do something she's not even comfortable doing at home. It's not fair on her and very confusing. You are the expert on your child

thismeansnothing · 16/11/2018 19:16

I don't think you are being unreasonable and the nursery don't seem very supportive. What happened to child centered approach and working in partnership with families??

DD was no where near ready to potty train at that age and was 3.3 when she was. But when she was it was nailed in a few days with no dramas cos she was genuinely ready and understood it.

I'm not doubting there are kids that are ready at 2 years etc. But all kids are different and, for some, it does take a little longer.

Original poster

AriadneAnemone · 16/11/2018 20:42

I spoke to them about being moved from the chat and it seems they have put her in the eldest group (there are 3 ) from today. I'm not actually against this as she has been going up there after lunch-time with a few others from the middle group who don't nap, until I collect her, only about half an hour. As far as her other skills go, I do feel she is ready to be with the older children, her speech could do with improving a little bit and I feel that will help her, but again I'm concerned that they didn't make it clear to me yesterday when we spoke that they would be moving her so soon! They were a bit vague and said that she will be 3 soon, she will be going upstairs, so we should start potty training now, and up until March she will still be having accidents (and get rid of the nappies etc) -- I took this to mean they wanted to get her started and them move her up in March as she is 3 in Feb, but then they've just don3 it today (not the PT obviously!). They also had a bag with all her nappies in from her draw in the collecting area with her name on for me to take home as they don't want them for next week.

I guess I'm just upset that they don't seem to communicate very well which is why I am wondering if they will even tell me if she is not picking it up at nursery.
She did, however, go into knickers after nursery (she moaned a bit but not like the last time) weed the floor twice and me once, but she did also get her very first one in the potty! And was very proud. We have 4 more days to try before nursery again.

I will see how it goes at nursery but if I feel she is getting too upset with it or going backwards or it's not clicking, then I will speak to them about trying her again in a couple of months nearer Feb. Would that be reasonable??

OP posts:

poppstar35 · 16/11/2018 20:48

I think you’re being more than reasonable in giving it a shot. Good luck

IceRebel · 16/11/2018 20:52

Gosh that all sounds very worrying. When children move up a room in nursery they usually have a transition period, to get them and the parents used to the changes. To just spring it on you like that isn't best practice.

I'm pleased your daughter has managed to wee in the potty but i'm still shocked at how they have just pushed their wishes onto you, without taking your daughter's needs and development into account.

Mammylamb · 16/11/2018 20:53

a woman at work told me that she didn’t toilet train her kids; they told her at some point they didn’t want to wear nappies and that was it. At 2yr, 11 months my son decided that he wanted to wear pants. I told him all pees and poos were to happen in potty. The first day he had two wee accidents. From then on he’s been dry with a couple of minor accidents when he’s not reached the potty on time. Sometimes forcing them is really stressful; not sure it’s the best option

StarUtopia · 16/11/2018 20:56

I don't understand why so many people leave it so late!

Both of mine were out of nappies by 23 months. DD at 18months. Son was non verbal (and still behind tbh) and he was still out before 2. I really don't get this, they're not ready nonsense.

If you're not careful, you're going to have a child like the girl in my daughter's class - Year 1 and still wearing nappies for school. Also won't poo properly.

Personally, I would take a week off work and just get it sorted. Consistency is your key. Buy a book. Follow the advice. You can' t keep putting it off!

SparkyBlue · 16/11/2018 20:56

@AriadneAnemone my DS is three since August and it's only in the past few weeks that he is getting into the swing of it. I was panicking at the start of the summer as nothing we tried worked. It just didn't click with him. I was shocked as his older sister was fully toilet trained by 2 years 7 months so I expected the same thing to happen. He is in pre school and they are great with him and now he is really starting to notice everyone else using the toilet.

StarUtopia · 16/11/2018 20:58

Oh and just to reiterate, you're talking about day training. You can't train for night so either put on a pull up or take child for a wee before bed, puppy pads down on the bed and lift for a wee at 11pm. We did this for both children for a while. Still wee our 4 yr old at 11pm or else he would undoubtedly wet the bed.

IceRebel · 16/11/2018 21:00

If you're not careful, you're going to have a child like the girl in my daughter's class - Year 1 and still wearing nappies for school. Also won't poo properly.

This sounds more like medical needs than a lack of training.

hazeyjane · 16/11/2018 21:04

I would be telling nursery to get stuffed. They need to work in partnership with parents, not dictate to them.

Hourly sitting with rewards for success.
This is not great for a child developing physical readiness to use the toilet, partly due to the child not learning the signals to know when they need a weeand also because their bladder never gets really full (necessary in developing physical readiness)

If your child empties their bladder too frequently, it won’t get used to stretching to its full capacity. Don’t fall into the trap of getting your child to do lots of extra wees in order to stay dry.

hazeyjane · 16/11/2018 21:07

Both of mine were out of nappies by 23 months. DD at 18months. Son was non verbal (and still behind tbh) and he was still out before 2. I really don't get this, they're not ready nonsense.

If you're not careful, you're going to have a child like the girl in my daughter's class - Year 1 and still wearing nappies for school. Also won't poo properly.

Oh ffs.

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