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AIBU?

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Original poster

To agree that Tony Martin's murder conviction should be over turned?

342 replies

FeckingEll · 16/11/2018 00:11

Just read an article that he is appealing against his conviction so his name is cleared before he dies. It always troubled me.

Putting myself in the position of living in a isolated farm which had been continously burgled, probably living in a state of hyper vigilance. Home invaded by a group of young men in the middle of the night. It was not right that he shot when they were not actually advancing towards him but he wouldn't have known that they weren't going to turn round and come back.

He didn't seek anyone out to kill them and he couldn't have been expected to have taken account of the age of the people who had invaded his home.

Much was made of him 'booby trapping' his house but who wouldn't so you could hear if anyone got in while you were sleeping?

The people responsible for the 16 year olds death were the adults who took him with them to invade someone else's house! It could easily have been Tony who was murdered. If someone invades your home in the middle of the night, you can expect that to be a potential outcome, no?

The way Tony was portrayed in the media was abhorrent especially as it has come out that he is on the autism spectrum.

?

OP posts:
christmaaaas · 17/11/2018 12:16

@BasilFaulty that's funny. Cause I know loads!

LaDaronne · 17/11/2018 12:28

I was sure someone was coming up the stairs . . .

Huh? He'd booby trapped them, and it was completely black. It would be a pretty determined burglar who kept going up a set of booby trapped stairs he couldn't see.

user1457017537 · 17/11/2018 12:30

Miscible I have no problem with defining 16 year olds as children, although I think youth is a better word. I was merely pointing out the discrepancy regarding calling 16 year olds who can marry, have children and join the Army and go off and fight in wars, children. It would seem the government want it both ways. I won’t be lobbying my MP regarding this matter. You seem unable to acknowledge my point.

corythatwas · 17/11/2018 12:47

Burglars are scum bags. I agree with you.

I think the politicians behind Austerity are scumbags (and it seems the UN rapporteur on poverty agrees with me). Doesn't mean either of us can obtain illegal firearms and shoot them.

Aridane · 17/11/2018 13:13

The trailers for the Tony Martin upcoming tv programme appear to show him sympathetically

Sparrowlegs248 · 17/11/2018 15:55

@Marcopront not that remote!

Poloshot · 17/11/2018 15:56

Absolutely it should be.

Eilaianne · 17/11/2018 16:06

What if it had been a police officer who'd been shot..? Nice point in theory but Tony Martin was already well aware from the previous burglaries and remote location that he could he been battered to death by the group of criminals in his house and laid dead for hours without a police presence being remotely likely.
There was no criminal justice or police protection for him way before things escalated so why would he have any reason to believe that time would have been different?

2BoysandaCairn · 17/11/2018 19:55

Can I point out if you live in UK, especially England and Wales, a pump ation shotgun is illegal, first. Second to keep your gun licence, you have to prove, via a doctor, you have no history of mental illness, domestic violence, if there are you lose your licence!
Next all legally held guns, of all kinds, including air rifles, have to be locked in secure cabinet/room and ammunition should be preferably stored separately, if it is proved you don't you lose your licence.

So if as a householder you sleep with a loaded gun by your bed/under your pillow you are a criminal yourself. The time it would take any law abiding farmer or citizen to get up and find keys to cabinet, unlock it get gun out, load it up and then be ready to shot, you would either have robbed or be dead your self.
Please don't listen/copy redNeckedstrumpy they are in USA.
By the way most shooting deaths in USA are kids shot by accident by their siblings
Sadly in our former village, 1.1 miles from our current house, Sproatley, a six year old boy was shot and died, after a relative shot with his GF's air gun.
My Ds, a first year Criminology student, will tell you he got the correct sentences, at each trial. He always says ignore the media, they just report crime to prove that we have lost control.
Has he was told on open day, offer day and first day of his degree, once you admit you being a criminologist, people will either tell you
A) we are soft on criminals,
B) you are an apologist to criminals and a soft leftie
C) all criminals should be shoot

Sadly I think his lecturer's must read MN threads.

Imissgmichael · 17/11/2018 19:58

Penny this boy had multiple convictions. I have no sympathy at all. As far as I’m concerned break into anyone property all bets are off. Home owners should be able make sure they don’t come back

Elfinablender · 17/11/2018 20:00

Your sympathy or lack thereof has sweet fuck all to do with the law.

Imissgmichael · 17/11/2018 20:07

Yes let’s use reasonable force. As a woman I’m going to draw up a questionnaire for all burglars to ask them their attentions. Taking my stuff, ok do you need a bag. Want to rape and kill me I’ll be really kind and not holistic you to hard.

This is one think USA gets right. On someone else’s property it’s your fault if you cop an unfortunate one.

Elfinablender · 17/11/2018 20:11

Admittedly, it is easier to shoot someone in the back than get them to fill in a questionnaire whilst they are running away from you. I'm sure chuggers would agree.

hazell42 · 17/11/2018 20:28

YABVVVVVVVU

StoneofDestiny · 17/11/2018 20:50

Burglary is an underrated crime. It's terrifying and life changing when it happens and leaves many people with a lifelong fear of living in their house, or fearful of leaving it! Punishments should be much harsher for burglary.

However, a person with an unlicensed firearm, loaded and ready to fire at anybody is scary too. I wouldn't want to live near anybody like that - living outside the law and willing to kill! No way do I want nut jobs with guns running around the country.

I'll watch the programme on Sunday with interest, but reading his recent comments on visiting the burglars grave doesn't make me think he is a decent person.

user1457017537 · 17/11/2018 21:00

I definitely think he’s weird to visit the grave.

Weird and provocative.

Miscible · 17/11/2018 21:08

You seem unable to acknowledge my point

Because you simply repeated that somehow something is a strange definition of a child since 16 year olds can marry, have children and join the army. In some US states children can get married at 12. Biologically, some children can have children at the age of 10. 14 year olds fought in WW1, in many areas even younger children can and do fight in wars. The point is that none of that is relevant to the definition of "child". A 16 year old is a child, full stop.

Miscible · 17/11/2018 21:10

Imissgmichael, why do you think reasonable force equates to letting criminals do whatever they want? It really doesn't, the law completely acknowledges the right of self-defence and the right to use force in preventing a crime.

user1457017537 · 17/11/2018 21:21

The fact that the child, FB, had 29 previous convictions and was going equipped to burgle a homeowner in the middle of the night. He wasn’t tucked up in bed was he.

Miscible you keep on about him being a child but he wasn’t acting like one.

TM was wrong to shoot him in the back. He wasn’t wrong to defend himself with whatever means he had at his disposal.

As I have previously stated unless you have been in this position you could not, and would not, know how you would react.

LaDaronne · 17/11/2018 21:23

On someone else’s property it’s your fault if you cop an unfortunate one.

OK so how about the Japanese exchange student invited to a party in the US who was shot dead because he went to the wrong address? Or the woman in Detroit who was shot dead after knocking on a door in distress because she'd just crashed her car outside? Or the teenager in Indianapolis who was shot dead sneaking back into his house after his curfew? Did they all deserve to "cop an unfortunate one" or are they just collateral damage?

Gingerrogered · 17/11/2018 22:08

This reply has been deleted

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Gingerrogered · 17/11/2018 22:09

OK so how about the Japanese exchange student invited to a party in the US who was shot dead because he went to the wrong address? Or the woman in Detroit who was shot dead after knocking on a door in distress because she'd just crashed her car outside? Or the teenager in Indianapolis who was shot dead sneaking back into his house after his curfew? Did they all deserve to "cop an unfortunate one" or are they just collateral damage?

Since when did we have the same gun laws as the US?

lljkk · 18/11/2018 07:48

Aren't some posters saying they want the same gun laws as USA, that's why what TM did was ok? Or anyway, in TM's case, fine that he broke the laws. Those laws shouldn't apply to HIM.

Fine to have a firearm in spite of using one maliciously in past.
Fine to shoot folk you think might be a burglar.
Fine to shoot someone in the back, running away, if they have tried to burgle you.
(they argue all that is valid, or more important than other laws anyway)

user1457017537 · 18/11/2018 07:59

Gingerrogered thank you I will ignore her from now on

Sowhatifidosnore · 18/11/2018 08:10

YAbu. He probably should be still in prison. I don’t think that you’re name should be ,cleared’ after laying in wait for someone and then shooting them in the back as they ran and clearly we’re not a threat to you.