To agree that Tony Martin's murder conviction should be over turned?

[FeckingEll]

Just read an article that he is appealing against his conviction so his name is cleared before he dies. It always troubled me.

Putting myself in the position of living in a isolated farm which had been continously burgled, probably living in a state of hyper vigilance. Home invaded by a group of young men in the middle of the night. It was not right that he shot when they were not actually advancing towards him but he wouldn't have known that they weren't going to turn round and come back.

He didn't seek anyone out to kill them and he couldn't have been expected to have taken account of the age of the people who had invaded his home.

Much was made of him 'booby trapping' his house but who wouldn't so you could hear if anyone got in while you were sleeping?

The people responsible for the 16 year olds death were the adults who took him with them to invade someone else's house! It could easily have been Tony who was murdered. If someone invades your home in the middle of the night, you can expect that to be a potential outcome, no?

The way Tony was portrayed in the media was abhorrent especially as it has come out that he is on the autism spectrum.

?

If you've got a gun that you are planning to use, then you better make damn sure you know what direction they are running in. For the sake of your own future, if not theirs.

Still doesn't justify why they were in HIS house.

Martin was a violent man who lay in wait and shot when the burglars were leaving. The jury were given the option of convicting for the lesser offence of manslaughter but chose to convict for milder. I agree with jury.

IIRC, it was only reduced to manslughter on appeal because the defence brought evidence of paranoid personality disorder and other mental health problems

Tony Martin really isn’t the poster child for put upon householders valiantly protected their family and property from violent burglars

I'd be interested to know what the burglary statistics were for the 6m-1yr after that happened.

It wasn't a "house". It's not like he was tucked up safe in bed like we all do every night. It wasn't even a "farm" really. It was a collection of derelict buildings that used to be a farm. He inherited it and lived in it, but didn't farm it. And although he inhabited the buildings, variously, they weren't a "home" in the sense that we would understand. There were missing roofs, minimum electricity (not all the buildings had it, those that did had maybe one low watt bulb), there were no distinguishable bedrooms etc, they were rat infested and full of rubbish and animal and other faeces. It was a derelict group of buildings which is why there was an issue with trespassers - it looked, to all intents and purposes, uninhabited. Because indeed most people wouldn't inhabit such a place. He wasn't some brave salt of the earth farmer terrified and defending his home against vile marauders - he was a nutjob who already had form for turning guns on people including his own brother who lived like a hobo in a collection of ruined buildings, one of which he chose to sit and wait in that night on the offchance that someone else would, thinking it empty, gain access, at which point he planned to shoot them.

(convict for murder, not milder...)

Dont the police always say that burglary is one of the worst crimes with the long term effects on victims? I think he should have been freed. You break into someone property during the night up to no good then death awaits you. Its the choice you make.

Eliza - the burglars were convicted,what they were doing was wrong, that’s not in issue. They didn’t get off Scott free and were given prison sentences - well, other than the one murdered by Martin...

Lol at death awaits you if you break into someone’s house. Even the Mail doesn’t espouse that level of vigilantism

I agree OP

@,Ladygodivasroom so what were they breaking in for then?

Dear sentiment stands, not their property, no reason to be there. What were they there for? Avian, their tough luck.

Ch4 are doing a programme about Tony Martin's case, questioning etc, on Sunday at 9pm. I'm going to watch it. We might have a better idea about the whole issue after seeing it.

*Same sentiment

DEATH AWAITS YOU

If you commit a crime knowingly then you are taking yourself outside of the law, so imo you cannot then demand that that same law protects you from the consequences of your actions.

However, YABU because Tony Martins actions where not the actions of a man defending himself.

*again

Ch4 are doing a programme about Tony Martin's case, questioning etc, on Sunday at 9pm. I'm going to watch it. We might have a better idea about the whole issue after seeing it.

Yes of course, because it will be 100% accurate in every way

Maybe he was a man in frustration at the polices inability to deal with it.

Same shit is going to start happening on the streets now and already has in Birmingham. Only a matter of time until it does in Enfield.

Pound shops in Enfield have started to stop selling knives to try to make a stand.

You should be able to defend yourself with whatever force you deem needed to stop the threat.

Where was that info published Lady? It was always reported as his home and it looks like a house from the published photos. Was he lying in wait night after night then? That would surely point to obvious MH issues and PTSD surely.

Recent reports say that he still farms the land.

I'm assuming he had the illegal gun as he did not feel safe after having his home invaded previously which I don't condone but police obviously weren't doing much. How do they actually know that there weren't that many?

Someone else trespassing and stealing on his land, so he fired a warning shot from a legally held gun at their car. Do we know what actually happened there, was he threatened? He's a farmer, brought up with guns from generation to generation I should imagine.

You should be able to defend yourself with whatever force you deem needed to stop the threat.

No - reasonable force!

@Ariadne attackers don't use REASONABLE force.

You should be able to defend yourself with whatever force you deem needed to stop the threat.

The police officer I was listening to on the radio said that this is the case. Justifiable self defence I think he called it.

But once a burglar has turned around and is exiting the property, in the eyes of the law, they’re no longer presenting a threat, so if you were to go after them and shoot / stab / hit them in the back, then that’s when you’re risking getting yourself into bother.

fecking - I can’t speak,for lady but what she says is consistent with the opening of the summary given by the court of appeal

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2001/2245.html

Mr Martin is 55 years of age. He is of previous good character and at the material time lived at Bleak House, which is an isolated farm near the village of Emneth Hungate in Norfolk. The farm has been in Mr Martin's family for several generations, and he himself has lived there alone for about 20 years. Nevertheless, the farm and the surrounding buildings are in an extremely dilapidated condition. The farmhouse, which is almost hidden by overgrown vegetation, gives the distinct impression, on the ground floor at least, of being derelict or, perhaps, a building site.