Is it unreasonable to say you feel uncomfortable around people when you can only see their eyes

[SailAwayWithMeHuni]

This isn’t meant to cause any offence, I’ve just been asked the question by a 12 year old and I’m not sure how to respond.

Context is that a group of girls at school were discussing whether older people are racist and someone stated that they feel uncomfortable when you can only see someones eyes.

@SpeckledDot I’m not on a high horse at all, just expressing disappointment at how the expression of “not liking it” is coming across as intolerance - and intolerance can be just expressing a view publicly, it doesn’t have to be an action like “pulling off a headscarf”. How do you think someone who wore the burqua would feel reading this thread?

OP- what did your niece actually say?

It definitely makes me feel uncomfortable. I’m not offended by it but I do feel at edge by it. Same as if someone was chatting to me whilst wearing a balaclava, I’d feel weird about it.

I hate it, makes me want to move away. Not comfortable around people in masks or full face helmets either.

as a woman and a feminist I hate any kind of veiling. As a human being I especially hate veiling that only leaves the eyes on show. You communicate with your whole face. I think its dehumanizing and revolting.

In Western culture it is generally considered ill mannered to cover your face when talking to someone. I would, for example, usually take my sunglasses off to talk to someone or remove my scarf from my lower face if I were wearing one in winter. In Western cultures we communicate with the whole of our faces when we talk.

I agree. It also bothers me that I'm being asked to respect someone else's culture, while they do not respect mine.

The paradox of having to tolerate the intolerant....

tolerate the intolerable, as well.

I feel that face covering is too divisive, it shouts 'women must be oppressed' and this is antithetical to liberal progessive Western culture

If one culture feels that covering your face is offensive and the other feels that showing your face is offensive I don't see how there is a mutually acceptable compromise?

I am uncomfortable when the face is fully covered but only if I am speaking to that person as I am someone who analyses someone's facial expressions and lip/eyebrow movements etc, cheek pulls, to try and understand how they are feeling as they talk or how they are implying something. When the whole face or most of the face is covered, I find it more difficult to understand, unless they have a naturally expressive voice etc.

Cultures which enforce the niqab would never tolerate the presence of women who insist on keeping their faces uncovered because this it would be a threat to their social order

I think that we ought to show tolerance to people who have different views to us because tolerance is a part of being liberal and progressive
however, this puts us in a bind ...to what degree should we tolerate something which is a threat to our values ie the suppression of women

I’m not uncomfortable talking to women in niqab and can easily tell people apart who wear it - by their build, voice, mannerisms, gait, style of wearing etc etc.... I used to have a lot of friends who wear it and it was never an issue. We could socialise easily while wearing it. I used to wear Niqab for a few years but took it off and went back to just hijab. Now I just wear the hijab with clothes like jeans etc..
the only time I feel uncomfortable with Niqab now would be if I felt it was someone very judgemental who would be thinking or telling me that my level of covering isn’t appropriate. Otherwise, it’s not an issue for me.
Regarding the teachers recognising the parents in Niqab, I would have thought they could easily recognise them by their mannerisms etc really in theory .... but perhaps not. Once I was in school pick up with my hijab (not Niqab) and a teacher mistook me for the only other hijabi parent in that class. Me and the other mum are two different colours, I’m bigger than the other, and we don’t look alike! So that made me quite surprised and wonder “how can they mistake us - do they only see the hijab?!”

I think Boris Johnson perhaps was being a little insensitive to compare women wearing the niqab to letter boxes. I do wonder if maybe he had a point regarding security though. I think certain contexts it may be appropriate to ask for the niqab to be removed eg in court.

Muslim women do not have to wear niqab- it is cultural not religious. Same as Christians do not have to wear a cross, Jews do not have to wear a Magen David. Some Christian churches say a woman must wear a head covering when praying or prophesying, synagogues may require a man wear a kippah and tefilin for religious reasons., Sikhs may be required to wear a turban. Those are actual religious requirements and it would be deemed unreasonable to ask those to be removed. I cannot see how a niqab is the same thing.

I'm only uncomfortable if I have to communicate with someone with their face covered. I have autism so it feels like I'm being forced to make eye contact. Also, like many autistic people, I focus on the mouth and partially lip read. I can't 'hear' what someone is saying if I can't see their mouth. (This is extremely common in autistic people and is why we find it so hard to speak on the phone)
All of this ^^.

I wear a mask at work and we’re required to remove it when talking - after treatment not halfway through as it’s a ‘barrier to communication’
And a lot of children don’t like only seeing our eyes

So covering your face violates our norms about politeness
It also violates norms about gender equality

I feel uncomfortable talking to people with covered faces too - actually that includes sunglasses in my case.

I think it's one reason I've always been very anxious around making phone calls.

Walking around in general though - no, a problem - no more than someone in a bike helmet, or wrapped up in winter. It's just the communication aspect I find hard.

In this country, I can choose which parts of my body to be on show and to whom I show those parts too. I will continue to cover those parts as I seem fit.

Deem not seem

In this country if you choose to walk about naked you will be arrested
so no you cannot choose to show whatever you want

Erm, yes i can. The are places in the uk where naturism is accepted and perfectly lawful.

True, but my point still stands

As 12 year olds mainly communicate by phone messaging, I very much doubt that they would need to see a person’s face to communicate. Methinks this is a stealth racist thread.

I am Muslim too and I feel the same. Controversial viewpoint that I would be reluctant to express to my Muslim neighbours as I fear I would be judged as having anti-muslim views. Sad but true.

It makes me very uncomfortable. I have autism and struggle reading people at the best of times.