Is it unreasonable to say you feel uncomfortable around people when you can only see their eyes

[SailAwayWithMeHuni]

This isn’t meant to cause any offence, I’ve just been asked the question by a 12 year old and I’m not sure how to respond.

Context is that a group of girls at school were discussing whether older people are racist and someone stated that they feel uncomfortable when you can only see someones eyes.

it makes me want to cover my face and only have my eyes showing because after all why should they get to hide what they are really thinking and the expression on their face when they get to see my full face?

It's like they get to 'read' me but they stay anonymous and I'm not allowed to 'read' them

I'm actually interested if there's any teachers here about what I said in my post

Yes also hate talking to people wearing sunglasses.

if I am wearing sunglasses I will lift them or take them off in order to talk to people because it's rude to talk to someone without letting them see your eyes

similarly it seems rude to talk to someone when you can see their face but you wont let them see your face

Antigon, there's a News and chat section. If such an attack takes place, it will be discussed on there.

Just like Asha Bibi has been discussed on there.

But the increase of racially motivated attacks and hatred has been discussed on a lot during threads about Brexit and Trump.

People commit crimes. We use faces to find the people who commit crimes. If everyone starts covering their face then it makes the job a whole lot harder.

Luckily men commit the vast majority of violent crimes. So the very small number of women who choose to cover their faces aren't an issue to me and never have been.

placemaking to read later

I’d rather that than talk to someone whose whole face I could see but whose eyes were covered, I think eye contact is the most important part when talking to someone.

Having said that I used to work in a shop when I was at uni and it wasn’t uncommon for people in the full face veil to come in. The shop had music playing and I’m slightly hard of hearing, combining that with not being able to see their lips move, and their voices being ever so slightly quietened by the material meant I often had to ask them to repeat themselves several times. So, in that sense I was uncomfortable because no one wants to have to say “sorry I didn’t quite catch that” five times in a row, but I was no more uncomfortable than I’d be in the same situation with someone whose face I could see, but who had a very quiet voice.

purpleme12, has the pupil been pulled up on the remark? because she shouldn't have been.

We are still allowed to express our feelings as long as it isn't Racist etc, or said to deliberately offend someone. As long as it wasn't in the presence of someone wearing a Hijab, then it's fine.

If you are serving someone who has covered their face so that only their eyes show - it’s not easy to look away and could be construed as impolite midnightstand

Why should a teacher's opinion make any difference to you.

I think it's natural to feel uncomfortable. I think it's meant to make you feel uncomfortable. So mission accomplished.

Birdsgottafly I'm not sure what you're referring to?

I was saying I'm interested in how a teacher knows that that person is that child's mum to hand them over at the end of the day if they can only see their eyes. I wouldn't know it was them. Do they actually know or do they just think oh she's wearing a niqab so that must be her mum

It makes communication harder, especially in noisy places, and it makes confirming someone's identity difficult. I find myself having to deal with this a lot at work if I'm the only woman available on duty (airport). The unease and difficulty isn't even a gendered thing either; a man wearing a balaclava or a hockey mask would get similar mistrust.

This is the full-face veil I'm talking about though - the hijab causes no more problems than any other type of headscarf or hat.

Maybe I expressed myself wrong.

People can wear whatever they want But other people also have the right to feel uncomfortable with it
We don't have to like every single thing of other people's culture.

I personally find it hard to communicate with people who have covered their faces - not just ladies who wear a niqab but people who wear dark sunglasses too.

With the sunglasses - I don't like it because I feel like I can't read a person's expression properly and so I find it difficult to have a conversation.

With the niqab - I always feel like I am really staring at the person as I am drawn to their eyes not the whole face IYSWIM. So if anything, I and up feeling rude because I think I'm staring and if I look away, I feel rude because I'm not looking at the person.

I think generally, people prefer to be able to see someone's face when speaking to them.

It is sort of a normal human reaction. But I would point out that they have to be comfortable talking on the phone and interacting online where they can’t see people at all or they don’t know that what they see is real. So it is an essential part of society today being comfortable interacting with people in a range of scenarios and over a range of mediums , and if they aren’t comfortable seeing someone’s face, perhaps they should cancel their phone contract?

In Western culture it is generally considered ill mannered to cover your face when talking to someone. I would, for example, usually take my sunglasses off to talk to someone or remove my scarf from my lower face if I were wearing one in winter. In Western cultures we communicate with the whole of our faces when we talk.

@MrsTerryPratcett How do you know that someone is a woman when their face and body is covered? Because usually a niqab is combined with a floaty dress that doesn't cling to the figure

When communicating with someone yes I do we read an awful lot from facial expressions

I also feel uncomfortable when I can’t read or make out someone’s facial expressions

It's a hard one really. Any item be it sunglasses, balaclavas, scarves pulled right up half the face, hoods pulled far firward, niqab etc well they do make it extremely hard to effectively communicate expression and body language is how we identify if someone's a threat, if someone is happy or sad. If they need help, if they look lost or confused etc

But

I fully support the right if everyone to wear whatever they want. I don't have more right to see their face than they do to wear what they want.

I accept that I am more uncomfortable because I am not used to it but candidly it's not something I want to get used to. Cutting off the means by which two people connect, see what the other is feeling and adjust communication accordingly is not something I want us to do more of.

This with bells on.

I don't think it's unreasonable to admit to feeling uneasy around people who have their face covered

I caveat this by saying I haven't researched this in detail...

But my big issue with the whole "everyone can wear what they want" is that women don't make a choice in a vacuum - the "choice" to wear the full covering is made in accordance with cultural pressures shaped by a society were the power is with men.

If an atheist woman in the UK wouldn't leave the house unless covered head to toe this would be treated as pathological.

(Sorry this might be a derail)

Some beards and moustaches make it harder to lip read too and are much more common at present.