Is it unreasonable to say you feel uncomfortable around people when you can only see their eyes

[SailAwayWithMeHuni]

This isn’t meant to cause any offence, I’ve just been asked the question by a 12 year old and I’m not sure how to respond.

Context is that a group of girls at school were discussing whether older people are racist and someone stated that they feel uncomfortable when you can only see someones eyes.

Oh sorry and I should have said I imagine that a big part of the reason why men have created these rules is because they WANT to cut off the ability of women to communicate with others.

But again - I haven't researched and don't pretend to understand the religious aspect of this.

But to be honest - without that - to me its just a way of controlling women from interacting with others.

I think it's a good way to combat mass surveillance
if everyone just looks like a black pillar with only their eyes showing they can't track you from camera to camera
of course there is also gait analysis so we shall have to glide on wheels so as not to reveal our style of walking

Yes extensive facial hair does make it difficult to read someone's face hence the expression never trust a man with a beard

It's a way of 'muting' women
Of greying them out, making not really there

I’m Hindu grew up in the UK in the eighties in an area full of brown or black people. In our area we feared white people. They only came into our area to shoot / stab / burn people alive. To the point where if I see white man in a hoodie I’ll cross the road or run (but I won’t do that if it’s a black / brown man).

In fairness though, things like hoods and motorcycle helmets and balaclavas have been used to hide identities I'm order to commit crimes. Hence why everyone who walks into a shop is asked to remove them.

I dont recall the same frequency of crimes committed hiding under burkas

So to an extent it's not as worrying as other things. On the surface anyway

@Gileswithachainsaw Spate of Men in Burka robberies in Indian areas in London / Birmingham / Leicester. Robbers are usually Eastern Europen tho.

YABU. If a woman - or anyone - decides to cover up for whatever reason and to whatever extent, it is none of anyone else’s business but their own. Being ‘uncomfortable’ about it is your problem to get over, not theirs.

I have to say I am surprised and extremely disappointed by the intolerance and ignorance shown by some posters on this thread.

BrightYellowDaffodil - hmmmm, but this is the point I was making.

I think that its pathological for a woman to want to not leave the house unless she is entirely covered.

And even if its not pathological, if every (or at least a very large majority) of a particular group of woman are doing that it suggests its not actually personal choice.

BrightYellowDaffodil - I'm genuinely interested to be disagreed with on this. As I said I haven't researched this in any detail and don't pretend to have any particular knowledge.

How would you disagree with what I've written?

It is difficult because in British culture a lot of communication is through the face

Not just British culture; it's important for humans to communicate through the face. All humans, in every culture, communicate via facial expressions. In fact not just humans, pretty much all mammals communicate via their faces.

cherries

I hadn't heard about them.

I would be intrigued to know if they were identifiable as men even with the burkas.

I've obviously only seen women wear them and it's usually obvious it's a woman. As a rule women in burkas arebt a threat certainly not to the extent a man in a.motorcycle helmet is

I agree it's unsettling as a breed of mammal that by evolution has developed the skills to read expression

I don’t feel comfortable if I am talking to someone and I can’t see their whole face properly. I hate talking to someone wearing sunglasses for the same reason. It’s very off putting, and hinders communication.

I hate it if a delivery driver doesn't take off their bike helmet - it makes me feel vulnerable.

@Gileswithachainsaw - I grew up around Muslim women in Burkas. Need to understand that most (not all, but majority) of Muslim women wear make up under their burka. Eyeliner, mascara, falsies. You will often see make up if you look the lady in the eye. These eastern european robbers knew this and had worn eye make up. That robbery wouldn’t have worked in a white area, but as Indians we know a Muslim lady in a burka is the most harmless being ever and the robbers knew we knew.

*A tiny minority of Muslim wear the niqab yet people are always keen to talk about how much they hate.

I wish people would instead talk about how much they hate racist attacks on Muslim women wearing hijab and niqabs, with women having their hijabs ripped off them, being spat and sworn at and told 'Paki go home'.

No one ever wants to talk about that for some reason.*

Hear hear.

Hmm, as a Muslim I don't agree with the niqab though I do believe it's any woman's right to wear whatever they want whether they want to leave the house in a bikini or be completely covered head to toe... It's ignorant to always assume that they only wear it because a man told them to... Some women like to be covered fully and choose to themselves... That's not denying that some men do force their wives /daughters but they are generally the minority.

Whether we like it or not luckily we live in a country where we all have a choice!! It's not always the men... My mother wears a scarf and it was her choice, my dad actually doesn't like headscarves and wouldn't have liked her to wear it but understands its her preference...

If you feel uncomfortable, then don't talk to them...

I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable in someone’s presence if I could just see their eyes but if I had to listen to them I would find that extremely difficult.

I have to say I am surprised and extremely disappointed by the intolerance and ignorance shown by some posters on this thread

I don't think.thats really fair tbh

I mean expression is a big part if how animals including humans communicate

Many items of clothing and accessories to hinder that.

The same way that if someone was deaf and You spoke to them with your back to them they would be unable to lip read...

Revengers18

It's ignorant to always assume that they only wear it because a man told them to... Some women like to be covered fully and choose to themselves

Oh that's interesting. Why do think that is - is it because they feel safer? i.e. is it still about the "male gaze" or do you think there are other factors?

Thanks for all of the replies, very helpful.

My niece is quite upset that she is being perceived as a racist because of what she said, even though she never meant it in a racist way at all.

Most people, including Muslim girls in her class don’t care about what she said but there is one girl (White British, if it’s relevant) who keeps bringing it up, making it in to a bigger thing than it needs to be.

No.

No it’s also because they are overweight or unconventional looking or insecure about their looks @ffs. Generally speaking, from my experience, most muslim parents don’t want their daughters in a burka. A headscarf (even a loose one) is enough to fulfil your obligations under Islam. The Burka became a fashion statement amongst young Muslim women after 9-11 and now I see a lot of girls choose it because they’re insecure of their looks. Their parents often don’t like it — most Muslim parents in the UK want their daughters to go to Uni and get good jobs and it’s hard to do the latter in a burka.

You can't help what you feel, and feelings aren't reasonable, rational things. You can help your actions however, so I think as long as you genuinely try to treat people the same, even if aspects of their culture or lifestyle and culture make you uncomfortable, then you're not being unreasonable.