The whole shit show can hardly be blamed on Theresa May can it

[dawnacorns]

I'm hardly her number one fan but I can't see how getting rid of her is the answer. They just don't seem to know what they're doing. It's an absolute mess whichever way you look at it.

My DD is on an erasmus placement in Europe
Brexit will stop my son getting one

Same issue here. My DD is supposed to be on one in 2021 and live in Italy for a year (language student) .She will still hold an EU passport ( thanks to my Irish Dad), but not much bloody use if we cant get the place

tiggerroo
but not the brexit that people voted for
Did you vote to leave the customs union?
Did you vote to replace EU immigrants with commonwealth ones?
Did you vote to create huge job losses in the north and west?
Did you vote for more expensive food?

if not, what did you vote for?

The fightback has to happen now. There is no way that an ill informed ERG/Brexit cabal of 80 in the Commons can just destroy all our lives.

That might sound dramatic, but there we are.

The bots are in.

I thought that .... is it worth reporting ?

No I would not report yet, free speech is good. As long as we know what the bots are up to! Up to us to rebut.

I am not saying that everyone should agree with me or anyone else either. Just good to notice what may be going on.

My DD is on an erasmus placement in Europe Brexit will stop my son getting one
Honestly is this a serious issue. You sound ridiculous.

I think people voted leave when poorer countries owed billions, (not living within their means) I think leavers thought richer countries would have to pick up the tab, I would like to default on my mortgage and get someone else to pay.
Education also let down millions, this produced millions who could only do low skill. Blair could have waited 7 years to let the poorest from other EU countries in but oh no, he had to do it straight away. It was the poorest in Northeast communities who voted leave not lefty lovies, middle class from south east. That's why Corybin has kept his mouth shout.

There were plenty of ways we could have secured a much better deal than we have.

Sorry but that is absolute, total rubbish.
The EU were never going to offer more than they have. It would be against all their rules and treaties. They warned us right from the start that there would be no cherry picking.

We had rebates and privileges as members. Cameron tried to get more and failed. They aren't going to bend their rules any more for a non-member.
You can chant Fear two and Fear 94, but the simple fact is that we are fucked.

tiger alternatively, you are still dreaming of unicorns when you think that a better deal could have been signed with the eu.

From an article because they said much better than I would

They didn’t know.

They didn’t know how complicated it would be.

They didn’t know how intricately woven is the UK’s membership of the EU.

They didn’t know that the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland might turn out to be a bit of a problem.

They didn’t know how divided their party was. Or how divided the country was.

Boris Johnson. David Davis. Michael Gove. Liam Fox. Jacob Rees-Mogg. None of them knew.

Or perhaps they did know, but they lied. They said Brexit would be easy-peasy. They promised a glorious future, as a proud, independent nation forged a new beginning, freed from the shackles imposed by pesky foreigners. In the words of Mr Fox, speaking just last year, agreeing a new trade deal with the EU would be ‘one of the easiest in human history.’
[…]
In the case of Brexit, the sins were those of the Brexiters, but the torment is all ours. Their wilful blindness, born out of ideological zealotry, has led the UK to the precipice. I have no doubt that future historians will marvel at how two successive Conservative party leaders – first David Cameron and then Theresa May – sold their souls to the zealots.

derxa Fri 16-Nov-18 21:58:31
My DD is on an erasmus placement in Europe Brexit will stop my son getting one
Honestly is this a serious issue. You sound ridiculous.

derxa, you obviously find it difficult to comprehend that anyone could take education seriously.

derxa
I am not sure why you think that British kids losing access to the Erasmus scheme is ridiculous.
It is a fantastic way for young people from all over the continent to live and work and learn in other countries
and is massively valued by everybody
except Brexiters

DD is in a European capital with a group of fellow Erasmus students from all 28 countries
she is learning lots about the world, about different ways of doing things
and about living in a foreign country
it is fully funded so nothing to do with me - she organised it all herself through her Uni

why should my son - and every other British child his age and younger - be denied the same opportunities ?

Basically, you ca only hope to have had a better deal if you believe that the EU was ready to stop following it’s own rules and regulations. If it was happy to renegate it’s ideal and it’s fundations.
Surprisingly (or not!) they have decided that their own integrity was more important than the U.K. wants and needs.

That’s what happens when you are not part of the team anymore.

That’s what will continue to happen in the future wo a Deal. The U.K., a small country that will have no power to negotiate with the really big, the US, China or the EU.
Remember the ‘easiest trade deal in history’? That was a lie (or a dream depending on how your u look at it)

sevens
I would like to default on my mortgage and get someone else to pay.
Move to America then - they have "non recourse mortgages" - the EU does not like them

derxa, you obviously find it difficult to comprehend that anyone could take education seriously. What does this actually mean? It's all middle
class bollocks.

Erasmus is a small part of what the EU funds in terms of education and training.
The Marie Curie programme is also very successful and important for researchers.
Not to mention all the R&D funding to make the EU competitive against the US et al.

It's like every negotiation EVER. It's shit in the beginning because you realise what you've lost ( and the other side make it difficult).
You get on with it with lots of moaning
Then it becomes clearer what advantages there are.
Life gets better, You do things differently.
It's fine.

Have you noticed it's only the people/counteries that just get on and do stuff in keeping with modern times are better off. America is dragged down by a constitution that is 200 years out of date ( gun laws). The Middle East is dragged down by problems centuries old. Change is good people. Be positive.

Sad to see the denigration of education. But I am not one bit surprised.

Back down the mines now so, but that won't work anymore either. So what would you suggest Derxa.

Call me Dave, should have been made to stay and sort it out

Just say the deal is voted down on the 25th, the EU will bend, it does more trade with us than we do with them.

sevens,

No one least of all the EU will worry a jot. the 27 as a trading bloc is as powerful as America or Russia, that's why those countries are pushing for a fragmentation.

But you know this already.

What does this actually mean? It's all middle class bollocks.

^ Working class bollocks.

the EU will bend, it does more trade with us than we do with them.

^ Clearly errant nonsensical bollocks.

I like this debating style!

Just say the deal is voted down on the 25th, the EU will bend, it does more trade with us than we do with them

That's not a grammatically correct sentence I'm sorry. Trade is a two way deal. A buyer and a seller. They cannot do more than us because it's with us.

Are you trying to say they sell more to us than we sell to them?

You do realise we are reliant on those imports and if we lost the free trade deal our cost of living would escalate hugely due to thr tariffs imposed? You do understand our economy is reliant on us trading with them and if we lost this it woild be over half our economy, likely up to 80 percent?

So no. They wouldn't be worse off. We would. By a million miles.

There are none so blind......

@derxa You ve just explained why employers prefer hard working well educated & aspirational migrants - not lazy, thick, & entitled brits.

The EU people we employ, earn more, do more OT and progress quickly through the ranks (IT comms)

Friends of mine in engineering, construction and agri say the same things too.