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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to call this neglect...

105 replies

snetters · 14/11/2018 20:47

My 2 year old won't go to sleep.
He's in a toddler bed now as can climb out of his cot.

He's always been a fab sleeper, from being 12wo.

Now he cries and screams and does everything to not sleep

We've sat in his room and lay beside him for the past 7 nights to get him to sleep which has worked lovely but can't go on like that forever.

Tonight have tried the good old supernanny trick to put him back into bed once he climbs out. Spend two hours doing that for dh to intervene and tell me to come out of his room and close the baby gate

As in... leave him to cry and fall asleep on the floor

AIBU to call this neglect?

OP posts:

PookieDo · 15/11/2018 07:37

Also when I had 2 of them in the same room i would read a story then have a story CD quietly on till they fell asleep. Don’t know why this worked but it did!

Absofrigginlootly · 15/11/2018 08:09

It's easy for parents of good sleepers to say they wouldn't sleep train and it's neglect/abandonment/cruel. You might think differently after a few months.

My DD was an appalling sleeper... just look up my old threads if you don’t believe me. I could still never have left her to cry it out alone.

I ended up having to do the Dr Jay Gordon method of night weaning at 15 months to get her to sleep better, but that was because she only knew how to feed to sleep and kept waking up several times a night and was awake for 1-3 hours each time. She didn’t know how to self settle only feed to sleep and used to get angry with me because she didn’t actually want a BF. When she was a little baby I used to get 1-2 hours sleep at one point because she had undiagnosed silent reflux and cows milk protein allergies.

I know what horrendous sleep deprivation feels like but I still couldn’t leave her to cry on her own. I’m sorry but I do believe it’s a form of emotional abuse when a child is truely distressed (different obviously if they’re just whinging a bit but most parents can tell the difference)

Absofrigginlootly · 15/11/2018 08:11

*1-2 hours sleep a night (!) that should say. I was so sleep deprived I was almost hallucinating

Absofrigginlootly · 15/11/2018 08:59

MotherofDinosaurs

I would never leave my small child alone and crying on the floor. Never. Regardless of what a husband says. And regardless of all the Internet nutters on here who think that leaving children to cry is 'called being a parent' it isn't.
Trust your instincts OP. If you don't want to leave him then don't. Stay with him and cuddle him for as long as it takes. They are only little for such a short time. And I don't want my child not to feel totally secure and loved for a moment. That's what I call parenting.

I agree.

Put it this way, if your elderly grandmother was in a care home where they left her to cry herself to sleep despite calling out for reassurance or assistance (maybe she’s scared and lonely) because she “needs to learn” not to bother the staff between 7-7 you would think them neglectful and abusive and probably report them.

Why is it acceptable in our society to treat small children the same way??

CandyCreeper · 15/11/2018 10:32

It's easy for parents of good sleepers to say they wouldn't sleep train and it's neglect/abandonment/cruel. You might think differently after a few months.

I disagree! my baby currently doesnt sleep till 12-1am!! ive still never done this despite needing to be up early with the other kids, i would never do this and still think its cruel

NotTired · 15/11/2018 10:49

I can't honestly believe that being left to cry yourself to sleep, feeling like noboby is coming back and probably scared is going to teach a child how to get a restful nights sleep. Surely children need to feel calm, comfortable, safe and loved to get the best rest?

Original poster

snetters · 15/11/2018 10:58

Thank you. I really do appreciate all these latest posts.

I'll continue doing what I'm doing - doesn't feel right to leave him to cry on the floor.

No judgement to the parents that do do this, whatever works for you.

OP posts:

Original poster

snetters · 15/11/2018 10:58

Spot on!!!!!

OP posts:

Queenofthestress · 15/11/2018 22:39

How did it go tonight?

Sparrowlegs248 · 15/11/2018 23:00

It's easy for parents of good sleepers to say they wouldn't sleep train and it's neglect/abandonment/cruel. You might think differently after a few months.

I'm another one saying that ds1 slept ridiculously badly, but never did I leave him to cry. I dud gradual retreat and took a couple of months over it but there were no tears and it worked. Ds2 us 21 months and wakes 2 or 3 times a night on average. I've had 2 babies in reasonably quick succession so not had a full nights sleep for 3.5 years between them. Still not leaving them to cry.

garethsouthgatesmrs · 15/11/2018 23:19

hamzilla I have a bad sleeper but I wouldn't close a stair gate and leave to cry indefinitely. There's a difference between that and sleep training.

garethsouthgatesmrs · 15/11/2018 23:32

I can't honestly believe that being left to cry yourself to sleep, feeling like noboby is coming back and probably scared is going to teach a child how to get a restful nights sleep.

there is some evidence that cortisol levels (the stress hormone) rise in children during these periods they are left to cry and that they don't stop feeling stressed and upset at nighttime they just give up on crying for help. This may well impact on how they deal with stress throughout life although that part of it is very much just one theory.

i would suggest that if your dH had locked your DC in a room int hose circumstances it would be neglect

Stompythedinosaur · 15/11/2018 23:46

I don't think it needs to bar for neglect, but it is definitely failing to meet your dc's emotional needs, and I wouldn't do it. I think if you continue as you are it will work.

jade19 · 16/11/2018 00:56

Not at all! I do the same thing!

Original poster

snetters · 16/11/2018 07:56

Queenofthestress it went, lol

He had an adequate nap in the day in his bed without a fuss (id consider dropping the nap but we're quite active and he needs it)

Bedtime routine - put to bed - cried if I didn't hold his hand. Finally drifted off and woke again at 12:30 and just wouldn't go off to sleep.

He used to stay with his Gran for 2 days a week while I was working but now I work weekends so he's just with his dad, other than that it's just me & DS all the time and he has become extra clingy.

He's become more loving too. He will just come to me and grab my chin and give me a big kiss, or if we're in the car or sat together he'll want to hold my hand.

I'm trying gradual retreat, last night I should have been away from his bed but he was too upset. I feel like if I leave him to cry surely he'll get more clingy.

Dh & i cant agree, I 100% want to respect what he says as he's his son too, but he just says to leave him in his room to cio but I just can't do that

OP posts:

Original poster

snetters · 16/11/2018 08:10

Have been thinking about his nap. Surely if I drop the nap, come 5pm he's going to be exhausted. If he's had a big lunch & light dinner then bedtime at 6:30, he'd be too tired not to sleep

Hmm.

OP posts:

3WildOnes · 16/11/2018 11:19

I would stay holding his hand for a week or so. Then in a week have a pile of his clothes ready that you can fold and put in his drawers whilst he is settling, giving lots of reassurance. Then after a few days you can hopefully just pop out a few times to get some washing and then extend it each time. Stay out for as long as possible but never to the point he becomes upset. A little grizzling is fine though.

Jenala · 16/11/2018 11:24

snetters did I misread or were you surprised by the suggestion that you being pregnant is affecting him?

Original poster

snetters · 16/11/2018 11:28

Thank you 3WildOnes for all of your suggestions, they've been helpful.

OP posts:

Original poster

snetters · 16/11/2018 11:31

Yes Jenala, I've never heard it before

It didn't cross my mind, nothing has changed around the house yet & nobody really makes a fuss of my tummy. I do try to get DS to rub my tummy and tell him he's going to be a big brother.

I know it's quite ignorant of me. I also didn't give much thought to what had changed to cause this. His dad & him we're playing a few weeks ago and DS got scared for a minute until we reassured him - I honestly just assumed he could be scared to sleep because of this

OP posts:

Sparrowlegs248 · 16/11/2018 15:47

I held ds hand for probably longer than a week. Then held it for a minute and let go and sat next to the cot. For a couple of weeks. Then sat a couple of feet away. It took me a couple of months to get out of the room but there was no crying, and this was a 13 month old baby who had never fallen asleep on his own. It's worth the time investment imo.

Arian1 · 16/11/2018 15:59

Try a nice lavender pillow spray and gently rub his forehead downwards over his eyes until his nods off. Should not take too long. You can use the pillow spray to wind down too.

ethelfleda · 16/11/2018 16:00

It’s not neglect but it’s mean IMO

littledinaco · 16/11/2018 18:36

I'm trying gradual retreat, last night I should have been away from his bed but he was too upset. who says you ‘should’ have been away from his bed though? The book?!
He’s 2, going through a massive change in his life (one of the biggest changes children can go through is the addition of a sibling and all the uncertainty that comes around that).

He’s clearly communicating that he needs you at the moment. It won’t be forever, don’t feel pressured to get him sleeping on his own. It will likeky just be a phase and you could drive yourself mad trying gradual retreat,etc. I would just lie with him while he needs you.

Purplejay · 16/11/2018 19:28

I am not sure I would call it neglect. However I couldn’t leave mine to cry themselves to sleep.

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