To ask what’s wrong with fur

[Iwannasnack]

Compared to leather? Why is one socially acceptable and one not. Is it all to do with animal cruelty? in which case why is there not a drive to raise standards, like in the meat industry, rather than boycott the product? I’m not trying to be inflammatory just genuinely curious!

What are thoughts on crocodile (and other reptile) leather? Surely just as pointless as fur because as far as I'm aware they are farmed or hunted primarily for their skins - but yet I feel you see far more of it paraded by people than fur - a croc leather bag/purse is less in your face than a fur scarf or coat.

NRPDad I see no difference between fur or crocodile skins etc. I think of you feel comfortable wearing one type of animal, there shouldn't be a hierarchy of which are okay and which are not.

Part of the problem is that it's hard to find proper information about how fur's been sourced; as usual, the fur sellers say one thing and the "all fur wearers are b**tards" group something else completely

I happen to love fur, so compromise by wearing vintage only (and which has been manufactured in the more ethical nations). Obviously I can't bring an already-dead animal back to life, but at least it means nothing else has to be killed for the sake of my choice

Just regulate the fur industry in the UK. Free range fur. Why not?

All people are hypocrites.
All those vegans eating avocados by the bucket load. Palm oil
All those people against fur, stuffing cheap chicken

If you want to eat meat eat locally sourced organic ethical meat. If you want to eat fish, eat local day boat fish, or highly sustainable species
If you want to eat veg and fruit, eat locally sourced in season
If you want to eat dairy, have the same attitude as you do towards meat
If you want to drink tea and coffee use fair trade and ethically sourced
If you want to wear fur, wear ethically sourced sustainable fur.
If you want to buy furniture, buy local well made, from sustainable wood

I mean you could go on forever. The point is, people pick and chose. And don’t really think that hard about anything. Everything that is produced of mass scales has elements of problems, from human rights, to sustainably.

If everyone stopped and thought a little harder about everything they consume we wouldn’t have these ethical problems.

There is a lot of hypocrisy and pick and choose to animal welfare. Most people don't want animals to suffer and i do feel bad about eating animals but then here i am sitting on my leather sofa. And i bought leather because I was so sick of my dogs messing up my cloth ones. To go full on i would have to reconstruct my life to such an extent that i just can't. I guess i could fairly easily go vegan but i fucking hate cooking. Does anyone know easy ready meals i can get from m&s and Tesco's and what milk for coffee and cereal? If it's easy I'll do it today cos my fridge is broken and getting a new one tomorrow so had to throw all my food away.

it's much easier than you think thigh. There's loads of dairy free alternatives in the supermarkets (soya, almond). I put soya in cereal but almond in hot drinks. Both M and S and Tescos have a vegan range of ready meals plus vegan ice cream etc.

What are thoughts on crocodile (and other reptile) leather?

It's not to my taste, but providing I can be reasonably sure it's been killed humanely rather than tortured I wouldn't have a problem with it

Also providing it's not from anything endangered, of course. I'm old enough to remember real leopard and jaguar - even tiger - skin coats being sold, and to me that really IS horrific

How many vegans buy red peppers grown in Spain in December - lots I imagine
Which is why saying I’m anti fur trade as a whole is just ridiculous
Be anti mink. Or anti the way some of it’s done. But using it ethically is in my opinion not a bad thing.

daffo right I will do it then, i just can't bear the thought of having to soak chick peas and sprout my own mung beans. My daily ready meal will be vegan from now on.

thigh you don't need to do that anymore. There are a wide range of really easy and instant lentil packets now like these
www.marksandspencerfoodhall.co.uk/product/puy-lentils--59ef3791-d7d0-448b-97db-49bd64e06825 - they are really delicious

M and S also do a vegan bean chilli and a vegan tikka masala and rice which is delicious (and some vegan nuggets I think, I haven't had them but I saw them the other day!)

undercover video of Chinese fur farm with an artical for those that like me can not watch the video as it is just too harrowing.

Some places will stun the animals by shoving electric rods into their anal passages to deliver massive electric shocks.

I don't really get why people keep posting videos taken in China or Russia or wherever? You could find the same brutality at meat farms in those countries. What's the relevance? A fur farm in the UK would obviously be better regulated.

Cows are everywhere, (well, in the countryside, anyway, not down my London street) and aren't farmed specifically for leather.

Minks aren't everywhere, and are farmed specifically for their fur.

daffo thank you, I'm in. Been meaning to for ages just didn't know where to start!

Fur - the coat of beautiful animals, worn by ugly humans.

Also cows are normally kept in fields so have more freedom compared to a mink kept in a battery farm.

spidey66

Read the thread. The VAST majority of leather comes from cows farmed specifically for leather.

Secondly, comparing free range cows to mink battery farms is not comparing like for like. Not least because most meat is produced from battery-farmed animals, but as a country we could easily regulate the fur industry to enforce minimum standards like we do with meat.

@Pinkyyy I'm not saying I support crocodile leather. It is odd how people get so angry about fur and seeing celebs in fur coats etc when Aligators are raised primarily to make handbags - which you see a lot more of on the street and on the catwalk nowadays compared to fur.

daffo what about cakes, sweets and treats what can I swipe at the shop? Frys chocolate cream is one isn't it?

BruegeITheElder China is one of the biggest exporters of fur in the world, that is why the videos are being posted, to show people where the fur comes from that is used to decorate your hat or coat hood.

www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-clothing/fur/chinese-fur-industry/

0ccamsRazor

Right, but it seems odd that the consequence of that is almost always "don't use fur" rather than "buy fur from a more ethical source".

www.furisgreen.com/fur_animal_welfare.aspx

www.nfacc.ca/pdfs/codes/mink_code_of_practice.pdf

www.truthaboutfur.com/en/fur-farming-is-humane

There’s absolutely no problems with people having different ideas about what is ethical or not - everyone has different standards, but it gets my goat when people spread lies about something they’ve only ever seen a Facebook video about.

If people look at fur farms and decide they still don’t like them fair enough. Cock fighting is also a banned thing, and yet fighting cocks were treated much better (being “champions”) than meat chickens. There was a huge outcry to ban the former but not many seem that bothered about the latter. And no I don’t agree with fighting birds, but the point being that, when it comes to animals, people are ridiculously hypocritical.

I fully admit I am - I’d wear fox fur but never cat, even if both were raised and treated the same. I’d eat a duck but not a hawk. I have a bag made of goat fur, but I wouldn’t use a tiger one. I wouldn’t, however, spread lies and malice about people who did something I don’t agree with, nor call them ugly

Try reading some we love, some we hate, some we eat By Hal Herzog. It’s very illuminating.

thigh yes fry's are vegan. There are a lot of vegan snacks now in shops. A lot of sweets are ok (just look out for gelatine - it's normally labelled on the packet). Just keep an eye out for ones with palm oil in so you can avoid them. There are vegan donuts now, loads of vegan ice cream etc.

thigh this is quite handy www.veganwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=VeganWiki