To ask what’s wrong with fur

[Iwannasnack]

Compared to leather? Why is one socially acceptable and one not. Is it all to do with animal cruelty? in which case why is there not a drive to raise standards, like in the meat industry, rather than boycott the product? I’m not trying to be inflammatory just genuinely curious!

The animals are skinned alive- sadly that’s a fact, it means the fur comes off easier as they are still hot. The thought of which makes me want to scream/cry/vomit. The animals are kept in horrific conditions by people who treat them appallingly during their lives, then skinned and thrown on a heap- still alive while writhing in pain. They obviously die a slow excruciating death.
Leather is a by product, when a cow is going to be killed for meat it is first stunned with a pellet between its eyes. Not pleasant either but considerably more humane.
I don’t for the life of me understand how people can buy or wear fur. You are wearing the skin of an animal that had a wholly cruel life. Always makes me think less of a person that they lack basic compassion for other creatures

Leather however is a meat byproduct. Cows in the UK are subject to far stricter humane treatment laws so even though it's not a great, fantastic sunshine and rainbows life, for most it isn't that bad.

No it’s isn’t. The vast majority of leather comes from India where cows are slaughtered for leather (not meat) in horrific conditions. Plus massive Human welfare problems occur during tanning.

1. Most leather is produced from cattle raised and slaughtered solely for their skin. In most cases it is not a byproduct of the meat industry.

2. There is no greater need to eat meat than there is to wear fur. Both are unnecessary but done for personal gratification.

3. If we regulated the fur industry, we could raise and slaughter animals for fur under the same rules as we use for the meat industry. They don't need to be skinned alive. They just often are in backwards countries with no laws or little enforcement of those laws.

So yeah, I'm against fur but don't see any reason why people who eat meat and wear leather would be morally against a regulated fur industry.

www.peta.org/blog/undercover-photos-arctic-foxes-finland-fur-farms/

Fur farmers deliberately fatten animals to increase the size of the pelt.

Animals are bred for their skins and there are truly barbaric ways to kill them to lessen damage to the pelt.

I have a Russian friend who has her Great, Great Grandmother's bear fur coat. Obviously she would never buy one now, but this thing was made over 150 years ago. What are the ethics around this? Does it moulder away in a cupboard? She doesn't want to throw it away.... She doesn't want it ruined because someone eggs her. She seriously doesn't like the cruelty of hunting and killing just for fur either....

just i think that is tricky. If it is vintage then I don't see a problem with wearing it.

I knew a vegan who bought a car with leather seats and had them reupholstered with cloth. I thought that was actually more disrespectful to the animal.

The difference is that leather and sheepskin are by-products of the meat industry, but fur is not a by-product. The animal is bred, farmed and killed just for its pelt.

I’m an omnivore, so I have no issues with leather, but I would not wear fur.

In the developed world there is no need to eat animals, dairy or use any other animal by products. I feel quite disgusted with myself when I love my dogs so much and I can see the hypocrisy.

However I just don't know where to start, i really hate cooking and food shopping and I'm punishingly busy it feels like a huge mountain to climb and that feels like a pathetic excuse. I don't drool over meat in particular I'm just always grabbing stuff on the run and eating m&s ready meals.

I find it hard to very hard to read people saying that fur is the same as eating meat. For the reasons people have written above.

Please, if you are going to wear fur, watch a video and how it is prouced. Hopefully it will change your mind.

I do craft fairs and am shocked by the amount of real fur pom pom bobble hats sold. The stall owners don't care. It makes me very sad. These cheap ones from China are the worst - awful, awful cruelty.

Many down products are also terrible - geese are plucked alive so that they can be 'reused'. Some companies like Regatta and Patagonia are OK.

I personally will buy second hand leather, i.e. from a charity shop, as it's stopping it going to waste. I have also decided to reduce my meat intake but will buy any discounted/sell by date meat if it saves it from going into the skip and wasted.

Organic chicken eggs are also really the only eggs that come from fairly treated chickens.

The last point on fur is the environmental impact - mink are reaking havoc on the UK ecosystem and are responsible for the near disappearance of water vole and other species. They originated from fur farms.

Rant over, sorry not sorry.

Please, if you are going to wear fur, watch a video and how it is prouced. Hopefully it will change your mind.

But the meat industry in many parts of eastern europe and asia is similarly barbaric. Yet we don't ban meat. We just (attempt to) regulate the industry. So why haven't we just regulated the fur industry to sell free range grass-fed humane etc. etc. fur products?

I can't watch the videos but I once caught some of an angora rabbit it was fucking horrific.
No the meat industry is not good and welfare standards need to be raised much more however Leather is still a by product of the meat and it's not going to waste.
Nobody ever needs to wear fur ripped off an animal like that

There is an option to buy organic meat, with guaranteed welfare standards.

Fur is cruel and there is no earthly need for it.

@BruegeITheElder there are many, many things wrong with the way we produce animal products. Hopefully in time there will be more improvements made to that industry.

I know we don't NEED to eat meat. But we get nutrition from it and it's a natural thing for humans as omnivores. Yes, the way a lot of it is produced is very poor, mostly due to consumption demand, but there is at least an argument for its existence.

But we absolutely 100% categorically don't need to wear fur. Ever. Unless you are living a primitive lifestyle/are of a native culture living by traditional ways and it is your only source of clothing/heat. Indeed, traditional cultures that use pelts utilise all of the animal with little waste, and it is done out of necessity, not for a fashion accessory.

No animal needs to die for someone to wear a pom pom on their head. It's utterly disgusting, morally wrong, and for me signifies everything awful about society.

I'm not going to post a video but anyone who even thinks about buying fur, understand its origins. Ignorance is not an excuse.

There is only a very small fur market, I live in Canada and know no one in the industry. Yet on MN, everyone knows animals are “skinned alive”.
Sounds like PETA have embellished a few stories.

@giftsonthebrain there's a shockingly large industry originating in China due to the current fashion of pom pom hats and accessories. It may not be in equal demand around the world but I assure you that it very much exists.

I know that there are extremes out there but I can guarantee that no animal produced for fur has a happy life. There are no regulations and it is purely a money-making industry. The cheaper the production, and the higher, the quality. And that means the worst animal husbandry levels.

TBH I don't care how big the industry is. The only acceptable amount of fur produced for fashion is none.

Sorry I mean the cheaper the production and the higher the quality the better. It's late and this topic makes me angry and sad which results in poor typing.

The meat industry is indeed awful, which I think a lot of meat-eaters acknowledge.

That said, I think it's a lot easier to not buy fur than it is to give up meat.

I will continue to challenge shops and market stalls that sell fur. I don't care if I get funny looks or people think I'm a crazy animal activist (I'm not!). I just hope that fur is bought and sold out of ignorance and not because people don't give a shit.

I think fur farming is wrong,

However, I hunt for the meat, and I will use everything from the animal including the fur/leather. We have skins from Deer, beaver and Coyotes.

Large animals such as cows require healthy living conditions in which to thrive. They can easily be prone to foot conditions which would kill them way before they are viable for meat and skin. Keeping them humanely is essential for them to become profitable.
Fur farming is profitable when animals are kept inhumanely. You can get a pelt from an animal that has been kept in shitty, horrible conditions. They can survive with injuries and they can be reared cheaply.

I wear both mink and fox furs

Of course you do.

I find it to be hypocritical when someone eats meat and/or wears leather but objects to fur

Why so? Every little helps.

Everybody has a limit to the amount of cruelty they'll excuse and that's fine. It's impossible to live an entirely cruelty free life.

What I don't understand is why people always accuse other people of hypocrisy as if it's a get out of jail free card? Like a vegetarian wearing a leather watch strap is a hypocrite and might as well be wearing a full length mink coat Eh, no, it doesn't work that way.

Also, very few people are entirely logical when it comes to avoiding animal cruelty. I would find it a lot easier to kill a rat than a kitten. So forget logic; just do what you personally feel able to do to minimise suffering.

I once knew a Russian furrier who was very keen to bring her business to the UK so I’ve had this conversation before.

The leather and fur industries have some obvious comparisons but are not, in my opinion,directly comparable.

I’m not sure I would be able to tell a real fur coat apart from a faux fur one,having never seen one in real life. Perhaps it would be obvious to me in the same way real leather and pleather are, but I see that very often. I imagine someone could get away with wearing real fur as long as they didn’t broadcast it to all and sundry.

How many people in the UK actually wear real fur though (at least knowingly)? It's not like you walk down a UK high street and see tonnes of people trussed up in real furs a la Game of Thrones is it? I know there has been a bit of an issue with TK Maxx unknowingly selling real fur on some stuff, but pretty much anything you buy from a normal high street retailer is going to be fake (sorry 'faux') fur.

Is it really a huge problem here?

Still think it's a bit hypocritical to get all offended about fur but happily chow down on meat. You don't need either and the meat industry is quite cruel and terrible for the environment as well (unless you only eat locally reared organic meat, which is what most MNetters apparently do )

I was vegan for many years. As a teenager I was hugely involved in animal rights and would regularly do speeches at school in my English class about veganism when we had to choose a topic to talk about.

I have now gone full circle and eat meat again and wear leather etc. It’s aftually impossible to lead a fully vegan life- unless you live in a mud hut in the middle of nowhere on a farm. Everything we use, do, take part in has some element of being a by product of the meat industry. If people want to get really deep about it even by using a service of someone who is a meat eater you are supporting the meat industry. On that basis I decided to eat meat again and just campaign for tighter welfare regulations.

I agree with other comments that people who eat meat - where current welfare standards are pretty awful to be honest if you actually watch some of the many farming welfare activist videos out there- have no right to judge others for wearing fur. Many animals that are eaten for meat have absolutely horrific last moments so people are kidding themselves if they think it’s better than those that are skinned alive for fur.