Would you say this was a forced marriage

[namechangeonceagain0]

I'd been with my now husband for 5 years before we got married. I was perfectly happy and expressed clearly that I did not want to get married. I fell pregnant, and after I had our baby, he booked an appointment at the registry office to book our marriage without telling me. He then told me he had booked it and I made him cancel it but then he rebooked it and got very hot tempered when I challenged him about it.

He is from Asian culture, and he said that his Mum is not accepting us as a family because we are not married and because we have a baby, it is even worse. So I went ahead and married him... even though I love him to the bones, I just don't know why I didn't want to get married? I resented him for months after. Every argument, I always bring up that he was the one who forced me to marry him etc and he explicitly denies ever forcing me.

I still feel really upset that it has happened. I don't even remember our marriage anniversary! I only know the month and don't know until he gets me a card and flowers wishing us a happy anniversary

I really resent his family for making him think that us not being married is a sin! I really do. I understand that's how their culture works, but I am obviously expected to follow it to keep everyone happy.

Not forced and quite insulting to girls and women who are in genuine forced marriage.

I think there is more to this OP?
Your partner wanted something you didn't but you were together as a couple and the married hasn't caused any additional issues - So you choose to follow what your partner wanted. What's the issue? If he didn't Marry you he would of been force to do what you wanted?
Many people get married when they don't want too to please their partners ( mostly men)

Forced married is not what happened - unless there's more to this.
I was 16 and married.

You may have been pressured into the marriage but IMHO describing it as a forced marraige is downplaying the fate of teenage girls who have no choice as to who they marry. You could have said no

It sounds like a bad situation OP but as someone who has worked with girls (and there have been a few males too) from cultures where arranged marriage is an expectation your situation is not comparable IMO. They are forced as in their life is in danger if they refuse to consent.

I think you were bullied into it. A 'marry me or we are finished.'

he rebooked it and got very hot tempered when I challenged him about it.

Emotional pressure and fear sounds forceful to me so it would fit the legal definition of forced.

Also I wish people wouldn't talk about the marriage procedures of "the UK" when Scotland and England/Wales have very difference procedures. For example in Scotland 15 days is the minimum noticed needed not 42. Even the age limit is different.

No, this was not a forced marriage as you agreed to marry him. I don't see the problem because you admit you love him and are obviously happy enough in the marriage to stay married (you could divorce).

I understand that's how their culture works, but I am obviously expected to follow it to keep everyone happy.

No, expectation or not, you are choosing to do this.

Comparing this to rape is being extremely offensive to rape victims like me and so many others.

Force, coercion or whatever term you use have actual meanings. On MN and in law.

Forced marriage laws were created to protect girls and women literally forced into marriages with someone they didn't want to be in a relationship with because they were threatened with violence, abuse or ostracism from everyone they love.

Nothing in the OP suggests that this happened here.

@PurpleDaisies

You seem extremely over invested in this. Demanding people explain themselves and telling them they're 'wrong,' (when they're not!) and putting multiple posts to try and 'prove' your point. (Around a quarter of the 50 posts in the first 2 pages are yours!) Give it a rest.

No-one on here owes you anything or has to reply to your grilling and mithering.

It’s a discussion forum petbear.

If you have a problem with any of my posts, report them. I haven’t crossed any guidelines. It’s an important issue and I’m interested in how some people have made their judgements about what constitutes a forced marriage. Nobody needs to answer.

@anoukspirit do you have an authority for the meaning of coerced? In law words don’t carry their ordinary meaning.

@purpledaisy ok, but what I meant was that is you havent experienced/closely witnessed real emotional coersion you wouldn’t understand. In the ‘shame on the famoly’ scenario you described isn’t nitcamerely rmotional manipulation it is a threat along the lines of you will harm everyone you live by dying your sisters chances of marriage/we will disown you/we will be ostracised from the community and so on. You just don’t seem to have an understanding of the nuances of the cultural context st play when the government advice you keep quote was drafted. There are some things you have to see, feel or do in order to understand them.

racecar there’s nothing in the law that states it only applies to one specific culture.

I think a forced marriage is more than you describe. You have been pressurised into getting married, but you are in a relationship with a person that you have chosen to be with and that you have chosen to have a child with. You would just rather be unmarried partners than husband and wife.

A forced marriage is more than this, a person is forced - by whatever means - to enter into a relationship and marry someone that they have not chosen for themselves

I feel there must be more to this story.

@petbear the checks and interviews apply to all marriages in the UK regardless of emotion, ethnicity, culture or country of birth, I got married about a year ago both UK nationals and friends of ours married about 7/8 years ago and went through the same process

I think that we need more details.

You are clearly furious that you've married him. Can you explain why you want to be with him, have a child with him but not marry? Why have you remained married to him if you feel this strongly?

@petbear oh and we live in a very non-diverse part of the home counties so it's not a high risk area for forced marriage

I suppose I think of forced marriage as being made to marry someone that you don't like or that you don't know, arranged by the woman's family.
Although you didn't want to get married and I understand that you felt pushed into it- you freely met him, chose him and had a child with him and I think the term 'forced marriage' seems a bit of a stretch to me.

I'm interested in marriage meaning so much to him and his family but not bothering before cohabiting or having a child together

Linked to this, I'm wondering exactly how much the MIL knew about her DS's situation before the baby came along

We don't know where the MIL lives (or OP/DH come to that) but is there any possibility that he kept OP "under the radar" until the child's arrival meant MIL would find out?

A very fair point puzzled

It's interesting to read the changes to registration and marriage. I married back in 2003 and we weren't asked separately. With the comments, I'm wondering if it's different in different parts of the UK or possibly was when the wedding occurred.

Honestly, I'm not sure with only the details on the thread, but it does seem like coercion was involved. I'm not sure bringing it up whenever you have an argument helps anything though. I can see why you do so with it still having a big impact on you and your relationship but hopefully you can find other ways to deal with that as I don't think it's doing you much good.

My mother was in a forced marriage - she told me often of how her wedding day involved her in tears and spent most of the day thinking of escaping but the consequences within the community and family were significant. She was often told - as the people in this thread have done - that she had a choice, that she chose all of what happened to her, she could have chosen to leave or to say no or to refuse to sign the marriage certificate - but it's a lot more complicated than that for many. There are many communities where pregnancy or having a child tends to bring out social pressure and abuse that might not have been there for a cohabitating couple (and it is quite a bit easier to hide a relationship before that as has been mentioned). I'm glad to see the UK's definition of forced marriage recognizes the many ways others can be put into that situation.

Is this only if you are marrying into another culture... being interviewed separately.. ? I married in mid 1990's, and this didn't happen with me and DH, and I know 3 couples who got married this past 2 years and this did not happen with any of them either.

I'm white British and so is DH. We got married in September and got interviewed separately when we went to give notice. We got interviewed again on the day of the wedding, although not individually. We don't live in a diverse area of the UK at all.

I'm finding this hard to believe tbh, or it's a reverse.

Either way it's not a forced marriage at all.

@purpledaisies no but this is a common occurance is some cultures but not all. If you don’t have experience of a culture where this is a common occurrence you are unlikely to understand in the same way that someone who hasn’t experienced emayional abuse is unlikely to be able to distinguish between actual abuse and just meanness. Unlike forms of physical violence which is easy to imagine it is very difficult to understand the full breadth and depth of emotional violence unless you have been subjected to it or watched it unfold.

As a separate issue the example that you provided of a marriage coerced by family honour us unique to some cultures so that in particular cannot he viewed through a britishbubderstanding. If you don’t have an understanding of a culture where family honour is a thing you probably won’t grasp the full implications of saying to someone that they will bring shame on to the family. In British culture that is a bit of a so what. In some cultures dishonouring ones family can have very dire consequences on the whole family. If you can’t understand that then you are probably ignorant.

My husband and I were both interviewed before we were allowed to get married so you must also have been interviewed, if your marriage was in a registry office. I don't know about the regulations for other types of marriage. If this was the case for you it was definitely not a forced marriage. If you were married in church you have to agree to be married, therefore it was not a forced marriage. This was not a forced marriage although you may feel you were pressured into it.

FuzzyShadow

Thank you for that explanation and analogy.

To feel that strongly about a situation and regularly bring it up in an argument would suggest a fair amount of coercion and control was involved. Perhaps you weren’t forced in the same way as some young women were forced but you were definitely forced to toe the line.

What were the consequences of refusing to marry?

Former Registrar here.

Except in very specific and rare circumstances which do not sound as if they apply here, both of you have to attend to give notice of marriage at the Registration Office in advance of the marriage. If one of you is not a UK citizen then additional procedures at a regional office would have to take place.

During the giving of notice both parties will be interviewed separately, about both their own and their fiance(e)’ s details. This is in large part to determine that the couple are genuine, know each other, are genuinely wishing to marry (ie it is not a sham marriage for immigration purposes) and it is not a forced marriage.

Did you attend this appointment and give notice? This is key.

Both parties should then always be interviewed separately before the ceremony to check their legal details, check there have been no changes to their details since they have notice( eg a change of address, have they had a birthday etc so their age has changed). During this process the registrars will try and place the couple at their ease, but they will also be very alert for any sign that a party to the marriage is being forced into it, or that eg they may not have sufficient English language skills to understand the nature of the undertakings they are about to make, in which case an interpreter may be required.

The Registration service are extremely hot on the subjects of both forced and sham marriage. That is not to say they can never take place, but every effort is made to make it as difficult as possible.

These are occasions upon which anyone being forced into marriage
can state this and ask for assistance. As a Registrar I would have instantly refused to marry anybody who asked for my help in these circumstances and given them my full protection/ called the police etc without a moment’s hesitation, and I’m sure my colleagues would have done the same. Apart from anything else the registrars have a huge legal responsibility when conducting the ceremony, and continuing with a marriage in these circumstances would have massive repercussions for them personally.

You need to ask yourself what happened in your case. Were you subjected to threats, violence, domestic, emotional or financial abuse of any kind? Did you attend to give notice? Did you know the wedding was taking place in advance or was it sprung upon you?

Unless you are withholding some major pieces of information it doesn’t sound like a forced marriage, more a reluctant marriage you are now regretting, but you know more than I do what went on.

Divorce is always an option for you. Perhaps a chat with your local registrars would help clarify your thoughts.