To think my daughter shouldn’t be called a bitch

[Fettuccinecarbonara]

My daughter is 10 and in year 6 of primary school.

Lots of issues around friendships which teachers are aware of.

Today the girls of year 6 were taken into a room by a teacher and spoken to about how they interacted with one another. During this speech the teacher called them all bitches, then later said that this bitching had to stop.

Aibu to think there was no need to use this terminology. The message could have been gotten across without using such language.

? Do you not think adults lie then julie? "We believe you" is specific to sexual abuse/rape, it's not a requirement to believe whatever comes out of a woman's mouth in any context.

You misunderstand me.

We believe you assumes the woman is telling the truth. It does not first assume she is lying. That is the comparison.

So I checked with my 11 year old if she knew what the word bitch meant. She knew it was a kind of dog (didn't know it was a female) and she knew it was a swear word. But she didn't know what it meant when used as a swear word. She did know a jaunty rhyme to say if someone called you a bitch but said she'd never had a chance to try it out because no-one has ever called her or any of her friends a bitch . So, however the sentence was constructed it means the teacher will not have got their message across.

So disgusted that people are calling a 10 year old child a bitch....
And equally so that pp do not recognise it as a sexist term aimed at females.
You are teaching your children to accept misogyny if you lead them to believe this is appropriate.
And no wonder so many child abusers are walking the streets when adults think that children are always lying. And to teach children to be distrustful themselves along the way

Teachers do know deflection when they see it parents often don't.

There are two issues that need to be separated.

Firstly, the bullying. Sort it out who is doing what? Address the issues as they pertain to your dd.

When this situation has calmed down, calmly address the wording used by the teacher.

Do not conflate the two issues.

It was the teacher who conflated the issues.

I’m sure deflection happens occasionally, but it’s not right to make it the default assumption. Also, why would parents not know it? Are they not experienced in dealing with children and don’t they know their children best?

I know teachers do a very important job, but they aren’t above approach because of that.

Also, why would parents not know it? Are they not experienced in dealing with children and don’t they know their children best?

Parents might think that they know their children best but they don't always, some parents are completely blind to what their do and their child never does any wrong.

Bollocks that considering that children may lie when they are in trouble enables abuse. My kids have been known to bend the truth/blame their sibling for things on occasion but would never lie about something so serious as abuse.
If the whole of year 6 were spoken to then there will be plenty of other staff there if not the head and if children have been sworn at by a teacher senior management will already be aware and dealing with it. So it will be easy enough to find out exactly what was said.
From working in schools for many years I can tell you it’s extemely common for kids to try and deflect blame when they are in trouble. On the other hand I haven’t come across one ocassion when a child has disclosed abuse and it wasn’t happening.

Sounds like this teacher was trying to do your daughter a favour by tackling the issue of nastiness amongst the girls in the year group.

The phrase: 'this bitching between girls has to stop' seems more likely than 'you are all bitches'.

If I were you OP I would be pleased a teacher was trying to tackle an issue that involved bullying behaviour that you say your daughter was a victim of.

Being reactionary about the language is completely missing the point, especially when it seems this teacher is on your daughter's side.

This is going to be unpopular, and I'm sure if the teacher did tell the girls off for bitching/behaving like bitches she is going to be in a lot of trouble... but I despair of the behaviour of lots of pre-teens and teenagers. I think that lots of them ARE bitchy, disrespectful and snowflakes. I think that lots of parents are quite precious, and don't put proper boundaries in place. I think that these children are going to grow up to be indulged and entitled. If my DC misbehave in school, I WANT them to get a bollocking. I hardly think that a bunch of year 6 girls are going to be traumatised by being called out for being bitchy. I'm sure they are being bitchy. I'm not saying that your daughter is, but even if she isn't, isn't it a good thing that she has seen that her teacher is addressing the bitchiness problem to the group?

LaBelleSauvage
Sounds like this teacher was trying to do your daughter a favour by tackling the issue of nastiness amongst the girls in the year group

The phrase: 'this bitching between girls has to stop' seems more likely than 'you are all bitches'

The lack of awareness in this post is staggering. A teacher is doing girls a favour by telling them that it is acceptable to use the word "bitchy" (a pejorative term only used about women )about female behaviour.

There is no difference whether this idiotic teacher called them bitches (noun) named what they were doing as bitching (verb) or described it as bitchy (verb)

I'm shocked that so many women think "bitch" in any of its forms is acceptable.

Being directly called a bitch and using the term bitchy behaviour are different

I would use bitchy as a term for males also

@BumsexAtTheBingo

You're right in what you say, I've seen that enough times with my DDs. But speaking as an abused child, if they get the impression that the adult will always be the one who is believed, then they won't disclose abuse they're suffering. Especially as the abuser will have told them they won't believed.

I was also never taken seriously when I was bullied at school. (Because it was never physical. I was too physically strong for that.)

A child needs to know that they can speak to their teacher /parent and expect to believed, not accused of lying. (Children should feel able to disclose abuse to teachers, knowing they'll be believed. )

I despair of the behaviour of lots of pre-teens and teenagers. I think that lots of them ARE bitchy, disrespectful and snowflakes

versus

I despair of the behaviour of lots of pre-teens and teenagers. I think that lots of them ARE disrespectful and snowflakes.

Your comment on the behaviour of teenagers does not lose any of its meaning by dropping the word "bitchy"

You would not use it if the teens being referred to were boys.

It was specifically the suggestion that when children speak they're lying that raised the hackles of those of us who have suffered SA as children.

@LassWiADelicateAir I would, actually.

I would use bitchy as a term for males also

That doesn't make it any less sexist. It just means you are suggesting that a man is behaving like an unpleasant woman.

@Labradoodliedoodoo agreed

Being directly called a bitch and using the term bitchy behaviour are different

They aren't. Both validate the usage of a pejorative, disparaging term used against women. The excuse "I use it for men too" makes no difference. If anything it compunds it. All you are saying is that a man is behaving like a bitch- ie like a woman as if such behaviour is standard female behaviour.

There are plenty of other adjectives which are not sex- specific and are likely to be a more accurate description of the behaviour.

Parents know their own child. Usually. With a certain amount of bias. They don't have experience of the whole spectrum of behaviour in a class of 30 and the daily interactions between them. Have pps never been surprised at the behaviour of other kids at parties? Has no one had a child who behaves one way at school and another at home?

'Good kids' - bear in mind that they have more to lose by owning up to bad behaviour. Kids who are often in trouble get inured to being told off. Blame so and so and you're more likely to be believed. Good kids want to protect their reputation. One of the worst bullies I taught, whose behaviour was directly responsible for turning another girl into a school-refuser was a 'good girl'. Butter wouldn't melt.

If only girls were involved in these friendship problems and general nastiness, why make it whole-class? Just as if the problem was fighting amongst the boys, there'd be no point in calling the girls in. In Yr6, boys and girls generally socialise by gender. The boys are rampaging round the playground and the girls are in little huddles, talking. Generally. And sometimes their conversations about classmates are certainly not all sugar and spice. They're still learning how to behave, what's right and wrong. The idea that because they're only 10, they must be innocent angels baffles me.

Bitch, bitchy and bitchiness are used to describe a certain sort of behaviour. I don't think 'little shit' is usually used to describe girls? Or little bugger, bastard or sod. But there's a certain amount of cross-over between the two. 'Bitching' and 'shitty thing to do' are more or less unisex. So girls aren't singled out for having negative descriptors.

If the girls are being bitchy, I've no problem with the teacher using the word. We all know what she means. No one wants to be thought of as a bitch. Perhaps it will have made one or two reconsider their behaviour.

SenecaFalls

I would use bitchy as a term for males also

That doesn't make it any less sexist. It just means you are suggesting that a man is behaving like an unpleasant woman

Exactly Seneca.

This poor teacher was trying to deal with an issue that I imagine is upsetting a lot of girls in the year.

And rather than being supported for trying to help, they're being hounded for semantics.

Sure they could have picked a better word but for goodness sake- all this outrage is ridiculous. Are we all so sure of ourselves that we've never made the wrong word choice?! Should we really be trying to micromanage our teachers at such a level?

Good heavens. -clutches pearls-

If the girls are being bitchy, I've no problem with the teacher using the word. We all know what she means

Do we? I don't. Does she mean they are indulging in physical bullying or mental bullying? Or being spiteful or vindictive? Or aggressive? Or deliberately excluding some girls? Or being snobbish or racist?

All of these words tell me far more about what they might have been doing.