So that'll be a big fat NO then, ds1!! AIBU?

[Greensleeves]

DS1 is 16 (just) and has just asked us - in full expectation of us saying yes - whether his girlfriend can come and stay with us from 23rd to 27th December! Apparently her parents think it's a fine idea

DS1 is a mature 16, but bloody hell. He's currently only just doing full days at school again and having therapy with CAMHS for self-harming and suicidal thoughts, he's vulnerable and volatile, and the girlfriend has severe anorexia and has attempted suicide several times. He has high-functioning autism as well. It's been a tough couple of months all round.

I'm not the happiest about this relationship, tbh - especially since DS1's birthday party, where he had sex for the first time with this girlfriend, with us IN THE NEXT ROOM, by the time we realised they were shut in his bedroom together and banged on the door to tell them to get back downstairs, it had already happened. Girlfriend was also the only guest to sneak in her own alcohol and get horribly drunk (not dangerously so, and dh and I were on hand and looked after her) so she's a bit wild. We were supervising the party and tightly controlling access to alcohol, but they'd been planning their "first time" for weeks apparently and got away with it. Finding the condom wrapper on his bedroom floor was a low point (although I am glad he used one).

AIBU to be reeling that the two of them thought this would fly? And to feel helpless that he's now upset/volatile/I'm going to be worried all night about him cutting himself because we said no? He's been calmer, happier and more stable this week and I'm scared of upsetting his equilibrium, but this is an insane request, surely? He was genuinely surprised we refused outright; his first response to me saying "but you have your friend XXX over for the Boxing Day buffet!".

Sorry, it's a ramble. At the end of my rope with ds1, he seems to have undergone a personality transplant over the past couple of months.

DS (10) has ASD and ADHD and I do worry about how he will be as he grows older, with hormones and relationships etc. Your post worries me as that could be us in a few years - I imagine they can be tempted to make friends with all sorts of people we'd be uncomfortable with, either because they can relate to them, or perhaps some (DS) will have a narrower group of people to choose from anyway. I also dread the psychological issues that may be coming our way - but I do think in your situation I would prefer stuff to be happening under my roof, and with us talking about it. Obviously if having Grandad over means there is no bed than he should understand that, but perhaps try to accommodate what you can? Maybe for a day or two. (Agree - why don't her family want her there?). I think you'll have to accept the physical side of things and just make sure they are being careful (and discreet!!) but I think if he's fragile atm then you'd probably want to keep any upsets to a minimum. Plus - a loving (if slightly worrying) relationship could be a good thing for him and his confidence, although I do understand your fears. Good luck!!

I've got 2 teen boys, 19 and 17. I've learnt that the best way to deal with these sort of mad plans is to keep everything low key as possible. The more you resist, the more they'll want to make it happen! I find that teenage plans are so transient, 90% of what they say they're going to do, doesn't actually go ahead. They'll probably split up before Christmas, so maybe just say you'll talk about it nearer the time.

If they are still together, I'd suggest a compromise and agree she can stay for one night. Not much you can do about the sex. They're 16 and he's using protection. At least you know where he is if they're at your house.

If they are still together

Invitation for NYE is a good idea as an alternative.

Logistically tricky to have her over christmas if there's nowhere for her to sleep and she lives so far away.

Just bear in mind that there may be no/very limited trains for her to get home on NYD, so you may end up being the taxi.

It doesn't sound healthy and I'm not surprised you're uncomfortable. The focus on sex by most responders is not what would make me uncomfortable but that you have two teens with serious MH issues in an intense and codependent sounding relationship. That you are scared to tell your son no due to his volatility- and he's being a crutch for her friends to shield her. Why don't her parents want her there for Christmas? Compromise- can find Boxing Day and stay overnight- maybe s day stay before Christmas- but they don't get dictate the whine period- it's a compromise for and with all the family

I think we (or I at least) focused on sex as it was mentioned quite a few times by the OP.

If it had been about the mental health issues I imagine the post would have been referring to the relationship in general, rather than sex in the house and overnight stays 7 weeks from now.

Of course the mental health aspect is very difficult. Hopefully both are being treated for their issues, but treatment of the mental health issues didn't seem to be the focus of the AIBU.

It does feel a bit like a powder keg SD1978. I worry that despite everything we're doing to support him and get him the help he needs, and the adjustments that are being made to his life and routine to get him to a better place, we cannot control what is coming through that phone. She sent him a photo of herself standing on train tracks once with a "goodbye, please move on from me" message. He reported it to the police and the trains were stopped - it wasn't the first time she'd done it. Her eating disorder fluctuates and I see ds1's eating patterns reflecting it - he's not anorexic, but he has risk factors and is underweight, needs constant reminders to drink enough etc. His ASD is also a factor - black and white thinking, obsessive interest, unwillingness to compromise.

The whole thing scares the shit out of me tbh. And yes, it does make e anxious to challenge him or say no to him, because he has explosive outbursts and can be aggressive and very cruel (this is all very recent, new behaviour as well). But that doesn't mean I won't challenge him, or that I will agree to things I think are wrong for him to avoid conflict. It just means I'm anxious about it.

i did post a thread about the mental health difficulties and I got some incredible advice and support. It was brilliant. This thread was about the girlfriend situation, because it came up suddenly tonight and I was just so taken aback by his request. And there's been a lot of discussion on MN about teenagers and what is and isn't normal/acceptable lately so I wanted to know how my position chimed with others'.

Have you ever met or spoken to her parents? Your DS is telling you they think it's a good idea for her to come to you over Christmas and that her parenta aren't great and her Dad is abusive, but could this just be what his girlfriend has told him, or what he has told you so that you will agree go her coming for Christmas?

Just a possibility.

We met her mum, briefly. She seemed very timid and quite overwhelmed with the problems her dd is having. The dad is apparently physically and mentally abusive, ds1 has told me that from the start, but of course I can't know for sure.

I wonder if it the fact that she is anorexic and her parents are concerned that would make her feel that way about her dad. I can imagine many fathers would struggle with a daughter with an eating disorder as to a lot of men it’s something that they think can just be snapped out of.

I do really understand your concerns, the co-dependency in the relationship would be a big worry, but I think you have to allow as much as you can rather than try to stop them being together.

I’m not going to mince my words - but this relationship would terrify the hell out of me for a variety of reasons.
They are both extremely fragile. We have your brief description of how your son has been over the last few months but I bet there’s been some awful times and the stress and worry you must have endured will have been dreadful. She sounds very very dependant on your son and my hair stood on end at the thought of your emotionally fragile son ‘shielding her ‘ from her friends problems by taking them on his own shoulders!! She has anorexia, mental health problems and needs a bedtime story every night ! God almighty - this all just sounds like a pressure cooker ready to explode. How on earth did he meet her?? She also sounds like a conniving , sly girl since she deliberately brought alcohol to your sons party when she knew you had said no alcohol. She showed you and your house rules no respect at all.

Personally, I would be doing everything 8n my power to get him away from this girl. No matter how you look at it she cannot be good for him. He needs an emotionally stable girlfriend who he can talk his worries to is he has to have a girlfriend. But naturally I wouldn’t be blocking him from seeing her as that would no doubt backfire. I would be being a bit conniving myself I think!

Re Christmas - I would defiantly say no. You have a variety of sound reasons - it’s family time, there’s absolutely no room for her, it would upset grandad who has altzeimers , blah blah blah.
I like your idea of New Year’s Eve but I would be staying sober to ensure that they were sober and if you are uncomfortable with them having sex in your home then you have every right to say so and to say that she will not be sleeping with son - and if she does she will be breaking a firm house rule and she will not be invited back.

Christ, you really are treading in a minefiled aren’t you. I really really feel sorry for you. He’s at an arsey age, his mental health is delicate, he has previous of self harm and planned suicide- you must feel like he has you over a barrel and I think he knows that. I know this might sound patronising (not meant to be) but have you tried sitting down with him and telling him how scared you have been, how worried you are about this relationship and explain why and tell him just how you feel and think? Maybe just try it on your own? Ask him if he thinks it’s the right time to be emotionally supporting someone so very needy and throwing a sexual relationship into the mix.
I’m not trying to be hard, I’m just saying how I would be feeling - I do empathise with you. Please keep a really close eye on him - which I’m sure you are. Im saying this because my mentally fragile nephew had a suicide pact with his horrendously needy anorexic pot smoking girlfriend so not a son but too close for comfort.

Seek help from his GP, CHAMS and any other support network you can. You are a great strong mum - follow your instinct, listen to your gut. YOU know this young man better than anybody - you grew him, you love him the most and YOU must draw on all of your knowledge and strength to get through this phase of his life. Remember, you don’t have to get over it, just through it any way you can. Never be afraid to ask for help - and good good luck .

i think you are completely right to say NO. Not because of the sex, not even because of your ds but because this girl is obviously very vulnerable. You cannot possibly take on responsibility for somebody else's anorexic, sexually active child that you don't know very well for 4 days over Christmas. What the hell are her parents thinking?

Of course your priority has to be your own ds and he too is clearly very vulnerable. I'd take the line that Christmas is family time (and should be for her too) but you'll consider her staying at other times if they both agree to your house rules.

Good luck. You sound like you are dealing with everything as well as anyone could.

yorkshirey
Take a bow. What cracking advice.

yorkshireyummymummy you've summarised exactly how I feel - terrified, and trapped into condoning something that my gut tells me is a disaster waiting to happen.

My worry with sitting him down and telling him straight how I feel about it is that he will have a classic ASD response - "you're emotionally blackmailing me, you're making me responsible for your feelings, you're being selfish". I have cried a couple of times when he's said awful things to me and he completely took me to pieces in front of the CAMHS therapist, saying I was weak and guilt-tripping him. He also said his dad is a cyberman (he's actually a very warm and loving dad!) and that he directs his rage at me because he's more likely to get a reaction.

He loves this girl. From where he is standing - and it's a bloody long distance from where I'm standing - she is his primary relationship now, she is the most important person in his life. At the moment, he talks to me, about her and about his fears and feelings etc. I have to tread carefully or I risk him shutting down and then I'll be even less able to support him.

Blimey I must be a right old fart, I don’t want to think of 16 year olds being sexually active at all!! Are we all now just meant to accept that’s normal (whatever normal is).

I would ask him what are the girlfriends family doing for Christmas? Maybe she could come over for the day on Christmas Eve then she should go home to stay with her own family on Christmas Day then he could go to her family’s on Boxing Day!! Tell him he can stay the night at hers on Boxing!! You could always ring the girls mother and see what she thinks of the carry on!! Anyway it’s quite a few weeks till Christmas they might dumped each other by then!!

i don't think they will have broken up by Christmas...just intuition, but I think this relationship is going to be serious for a while.

An example of how besotted he is - on his birthday, he wanted to take her out for a picnic in the countryside, but she doesn't do food. So he borrowed a Japanese tea set, bought her favourite green tea, took flasks of hot water and took her for a long walk and a tea ceremony. Doing nice things for her makes him feel on top of the world. When they are both on an even keel, he comes away from seeing her and he just can't stop smiling. It's the other times, the times when one or both of them is in crisis, that terrify me.

Trying to break them up really isn't an option.

Oh God I'm so sorry you're in this situation OP. YANBU.

It is family time, really. His grandad will be staying with us and his brother will be sleeping in his room (grandad has ds2's little room when he stays, ds1 has bunk beds in his room so they move in together when we have guests). There wouldn't even be anywhere to sleep - I think ds1 thought she would just sleep in his bed

I think this is the reason she can’t stay, regardless of anything else. I think it would be really inappropriate for them to share a bed whilst sharing a room with a younger sibling and I honestly can’t see why they would want to do this. It’s not going to be romantic having your little brother sharing a room with you and your gf surely?

But, I think you might need to compromise and say she can stay overnight once the sibling goes back to their own room. If you don’t allow it, I think you risk pushing him away which will not help his mental health at all. They are going to have sex anyway, and at least you know they are safe at home. I’m assuming they are using protection?

I agree with yorkshirey advice. If he doesn't like emotion keep it out of the discussion. "There is no space over Xmas due to grandfather. That won't be possible" This isnt about you emotionally blackmailing him, it is about practical issues such as space and all of the family putting the needs of grandfather first.
Invite the girlfriend over, be clear that she won't be staying in the same room as him. Again, your house your rules, I would explain that you aren't happy with him having sex with a vulnerable girl and you aren't going to condone it happening under your roof. Arrange a time, NYE seems good and explain it will be a family occasion she is welcome to join.
Giving him control where possible is a good idea where it is possible, these are not sensible choices that he is making so he can't have complete control.
It is likely that he will kick off but many teenagers do when told no, their brains are returning to a toddler state and their ability to assess risk is as well.

They are both vulnerable, so why the hell aren't you liaising with her mum to help them to navigate this relationsip, which is happening whether it pleases you or not?

If you have her mobile, contact her and agree some dates to suggest. The kids are obviously smitten, so rather than screaming no, find out if you'd be treading on any toes then suggest that boxing day would be great and you;re not fussed any way about the 27th as you don't have firm plans, or whatever works for you.

No! She’s a cf and he’s a cf!

It’s Christmas. It’s strictly family. She can visit Christmas Eve like other 16 year old gfs or bfs.

Honestly you are not going to chase them off to live in a field if you give your son the excuse/structure of a less intense, more relaxed measured pace to this. Hold your own. Keep inviting her for more low key stuff, lunch out, dinner, keep an eye, but don’t just let it get out of hand.

Unfortunately, it's quite possible that the GF's family are abusive or at least neglectful, and you won't be able to rely on any help from them. In some ways, for your son's sake, that's possibly better than the girl simply being a manipulative drama llama.
I think your best bet involves supporting the relationship rather than trying to separate them, though I completely appreciate how worrying it must be. I can't offer any more useful advise, but wish you all well.