So that'll be a big fat NO then, ds1!! AIBU?

[Greensleeves]

DS1 is 16 (just) and has just asked us - in full expectation of us saying yes - whether his girlfriend can come and stay with us from 23rd to 27th December! Apparently her parents think it's a fine idea

DS1 is a mature 16, but bloody hell. He's currently only just doing full days at school again and having therapy with CAMHS for self-harming and suicidal thoughts, he's vulnerable and volatile, and the girlfriend has severe anorexia and has attempted suicide several times. He has high-functioning autism as well. It's been a tough couple of months all round.

I'm not the happiest about this relationship, tbh - especially since DS1's birthday party, where he had sex for the first time with this girlfriend, with us IN THE NEXT ROOM, by the time we realised they were shut in his bedroom together and banged on the door to tell them to get back downstairs, it had already happened. Girlfriend was also the only guest to sneak in her own alcohol and get horribly drunk (not dangerously so, and dh and I were on hand and looked after her) so she's a bit wild. We were supervising the party and tightly controlling access to alcohol, but they'd been planning their "first time" for weeks apparently and got away with it. Finding the condom wrapper on his bedroom floor was a low point (although I am glad he used one).

AIBU to be reeling that the two of them thought this would fly? And to feel helpless that he's now upset/volatile/I'm going to be worried all night about him cutting himself because we said no? He's been calmer, happier and more stable this week and I'm scared of upsetting his equilibrium, but this is an insane request, surely? He was genuinely surprised we refused outright; his first response to me saying "but you have your friend XXX over for the Boxing Day buffet!".

Sorry, it's a ramble. At the end of my rope with ds1, he seems to have undergone a personality transplant over the past couple of months.

[kiabella]

If you wanted to do it in a more gentle way you could say that Xmas will be incredibly hard for his girlfriend due to the meals involved and that not eating isn’t negotiable. There’s no way I would tolerate doing meal support for someone else’s child over Christmas and I’m an eating disorder practitioner. That is her parents responsibility and they are failing her in whatever treatment she’s recieving by letting her eat away from home especially over the most difficult meals of the year for someone with an ED.

[kiabella]

Just read the other replies, she can’t just say “I don’t do food” and him go along with it! Christ what if she collapsed on him in the countryside, potentially no phone signal and hard to get help. She’s putting him in a really dangerous position!

[Greensleeves]

kiabella I know, it is terrifying. She does in fact collapse and has been hospitalised several times because of her eating disorder. They've had a couple of huge rows because he tried to coax her to eat while they were out together. Now he doesn't eat in front of her, which worries me sick. He promised her he wouldn't cut himself if she would make an effort to eat. It's horrifying. But I have to deal with the situation as it is, the relationship is there and it's real and for them it's very deep, so I can't just grab him and run. I often think things were easier when he was a toddler and i could just say "no" on his behalf!

[DarklyDreamingDexter]

Personally I would let her stay for Christmas so I could keep an eye on them both. Christmas can be a very stressful time and if she's having a hard time at home and she reaches out to him for support it but they can't be together, it might push him over the edge into risky behaviour. I'd speak to the mother and see how she feels about her daughter being away for Christmas, not just take it from the girl that she is ok with it. It is a bit of a crazy request in the normal scheme of things, but if your son isn't acting rationally at the moment I'd be prepared to suspend what is 'normal' to keep him safe under your watchful eye.

[RCohle]

I'm so sorry you're going though, it sounds incredibly difficult.

I would have huge concerns about how healthy this relationship is for either of them, and would be strongly disinclined to do anything at all to encourage it. I do of course see that any attempt to break them is likely to massively backfire. You're in a really difficult situation.

I would rely on any number of the very sensible reasons you have to completely refuse - family time, granddad etc. Quite apart from any of the mental health concerns, hell would freeze over before I would allow a 16 yo and his girlfriend to share a bed with a younger sibling in the room. They'll shag and it would be completely grim for your younger son.

[Greensleeves]

Agreed RCohle, it would be beyond horrific for ds2 (he's 14) and a pretty major safeguarding failure on our part to let them spend the night together in there! It doesn't bear thinking about. Unfortunately ds1 just doesn't see boundaries in the way one would expect and it seems she doesn't either. We've told him there is absolutely no way she can come for Christmas, I did cite the sleeping arrangements and Grandad's dementia, and also just that it's family time. I think tomorrow I will have a talk to him about New Year.

[lobeydosser]

What an awful quandary for you all.
i wonder whether you should try and blindside DS when you speak to him tomorrow and invite the GF over much sooner than Christmas/NY?
Ask him when they're both likely not to be too busy with school/college work and arrange for her to come over in the next couple of weeks.
It's just possible they might be more inhibited about having sex away from the hubbub of a 16th birthday party.
But more importantly it would send a really clear signal of reassurance and validation to them both that you like her and want to get to know her. Maybe encountering approval and warmth in a home that's quite different from her own will engineer an improvement in her mental well-being.
Christmas/NY are so stressful principally because of all the surrounding expectations that it might be beneficial for them to get together again much sooner.
Anything that could get them both on a more even keel would be a huge blessing.
I do hope it all works out

[diddl]

Tbh, with her ed, Christmas would be pretty fraught, wouldn't it?

You're all going to be focussing on not upsetting her.

It sounds horrific.

I can't help thinking that Christmas will be ruined if she's there or if she's not.

[Asthenia]

Mental health problems aside, this really doesn’t sound like a particularly unusual teenage relationship. I’m 27 and a lot of the relationships my friends and I had matched this one in levels of intensity and melodrama - plus we were all sexually active and no harm came of it! My parents let my boyfriend stay for Christmas when I was 17 and it was one of the best I’ve ever had - I felt like they trusted me and felt so grown up. It was the right move on their part, I think.
In my opinion the issue here is not the relationship - teenagers are dramatic and self-absorbed and always believe they’re the only people in the world to ever have been in love, that’s all normal. But the anorexia and your son’s issues are the most worrying thing, which I understand you believe are compounded by this relationship.
Also, people calling a 16 year old girl conniving and sly? Jesus.

[OwlBeThere]

you only have their word for it that her parents are ok with it to be fair. you don't know thats the case.
i'd also compromise with a couple of days after christmas instead.

[Sallycinammonbangsthedruminthe]

I would say no OP ...infact I would be not having the conversation more than once...shut it down and for everyones sake I would be doing everything I can to obstruct this relationship full stop..It is not healthy for two people with obviously serious issues to be together...I worry that this relationship is affecting you all as a family..look at the stress its putting you under...You are the responsible adult here you get to decide whom you choose to have in your home ....Why should your peace of mind and your xmas be ruined and over ridden by trying to deal with problems from a couple of love struck kids? I know you want to do your best for your son and you want him happy but the issues you all face with both kids mental health are more pressing...forget her as mean as it sounds and try to get your son the help he obviously needs..thats your priority not being brow beaten by a mass of raving hormones and what is in effect a teenage romance...Please don;t top toe around your own home for the sake of keeping the peace...this relationship has disaster written all over it and I would hate for you to deal with it all when it errupts...You sound such a lovely mum and I can see how torn you are ..But we have to parent its our job and on that you get to decide...Best Wishes sent I hope your son can over come his problems.

[StormTreader]

Would it be out of order to explain to him that a lot of the "Christmas family experience" is around food, and she would be expected to join in with that? Its not going to be a very pleasant atmosphere if you have a guest that disappears in horror every time the mince pies are brought out.

How would she even join in with the Christmas meal or "boxing day buffet"? Would he also be expected to not be present at any of these to support her if he already cant eat in front of her?

[stayathomegardener]

The good thing is your DS is black and white, I would keep it super simple.
No your gf can't stay whilst your grandfather is here as there is no room.

Offer them a couple of days before grandfather arrives and at New Years afterwards.

This will give them a focus to look forward to, if the first stay is a disaster you can consider cancelling the second and Christmas should be a welcome reprieve.

I wouldn't remotely worry about sex in your house, that's the least of your worries.
Good luck and look after yourself, it sounds very tough for you.

[Greensleeves]

I think the point about Christmas revolving around food and the sharing of food is a really good one - Christmas dinner would be horrendous for her in our house and we aren't ED experts so we probably wouldn't have the skills to make it doable for her.

I think it's something I need to learn more about if they are going to be together for a while - I want our home to be somewhere she can come and feel comfortable and accepted, and we are quite keen on our food and sharing treats etc. If she is going to come for NYE I will have to think about how to handle that. Maybe put food out in the other room for people to help themselves to and not have it as a major focus

Sallycinnamon I hear what you're saying, I also think the relationship is a powder keg and has the potential to be disastrous. But he's 16 and knows his own mind, and he loves this girl very much. I don't think there is a way for me to forcibly break that attachment, and I don't think it would be right if I did. As a group of adult mums, we may think "it's two lovestruck kids", but to DS1 that's not how it is at all. He's very prickly about being patronised or belittled because of his age, he strains against the restrictions on his freedom that being still a teenager entails, and if he got a whiff of the idea that I think his feelings for his girlfriend are skin-deep because he's only 16, I would lose the trust and communication that I have with him at the moment - and I need it, because I need to know when he is self-harming or considering it, when he is depressed, when something happens at school that he needs to talk about. I'm walking a tightrope.

[Purpleartichoke]

Nye would be a good solution. It’s a lower pressure holiday, just one night, fewer guests, you are up late to supervise. I would plan your normal food, but Maybe make sure the mix includes some things she might be more comfortable eating. Obviously it depends on the person, but if she is someone who will eat lighter food to keep up appearances then maybe some small bites of fruit and veggies. She might nibble on grapes and sip sparkling water if they were available.

[Theoscargoesto]

I hope this doesn't derail your thread, OP, and I can empathise with the difficulties you have been having with DS. For reasons that follow, I know what it's like to have a child whose personality seems to have changed. I also know what it's like to feel that, whatever decisions you make about that child's welfare, they have you over a barrel in some way. It will not be your responsibility if DS harms himself once you have made your decision, but I know it won't feel that way to you and I wish you all the best with your son.

The reason for my post (and the potential derail) is that I have had a severely anorexic DD. I am really surprised that the GF drinks alcohol, I know mine wouldn't touch it: all those calories.

In addition, please don't underestimate what it's like to be anorexic over Christmas, and furthermore to have an anorexic around at this time. Second, I would not have wanted my severely anorexic DD to be in anyone else's charge when she was very unwell. It wouldn't have been fair for them to feel responsible for her eating, and I needed to know that she was eating. Not eating (and in my DD's case, exercising), were dangerous: it's not fair for you to have that responsibility. And it's onerous, it really is, if she's as ill as you think.

I wonder what her parents are expecting of you, if anything. Will you be expected to ensure she eats? What will be 'enough' for her to eat? How will you handle it if she doesn't eat? What will you do should she become really unwell: how will you be able to assess that?

In some ways, that seems to me to be more important than if they are sexually active: they can be that over the period without her staying with you.

[JanetLovesJason]

Maybe her parent’s said it’s fine because they think that way it might fizzle out, whereas if they take a firm line it could go full blown Romeo and Juliet forbidden love style.

Could you stall and say something like “We’ll see, I’ll think about it” to diffuse things a bit?

[Theoscargoesto]

And just read more of the thread (sorry). SHe's clearly using food as a weapon, and for your son to be bargaining with her and not eating in front of her is not healthy for either of them. Please just be aware that eating disorders are the most manipulative, damaging illness I have come across and in the final analysis, your son is your responsibility, not her. If she doesn't have support around her at home , if her life is lacking something fundamental, you probably aren't going to change that, and it's for her and her family to resolve (or not). You have a really difficult situation on your hands and I truly wish you the best with it.

[KatKit16]

I would say yes to the days but she has to go home for the evening.

[Ttcfirsttime]

Wow, certainly a very complicated situation. I agree with offering the New Year’s Eve and making food less prominent then. I also like someone else’s suggestion of offering a night or 2 this month so you can also get to know her more one on one and with less pressure of a holiday. Learning about ED would definitely be ideal, especially if you’re concerned your son might go this route, as you may learn to help him before it gets to that point. Her parents or dad may well be abusive and she may be seeking somewhere safe and enjoy being in a warm and loving family home. I know it’s a lot for you to take on; but by letting her stay you may actually help her mental health by giving her respite from an abusive home (not over Xmas as you have good reasons for this).

[thaegumathteth]

I’m sorry you’re in this situation OP. You’re absolutely right not to dismiss the validity of the relationship just because of his age. I have been with dh since I was a teenager and I think it has surprised people BUT we were in a much more stable calm situation. I can’t see something like what your son and his girlfriend has lasting because it sounds so fraught with stress but you are right not to assume that or to try and make it end. You need to be able to be there for him to pick up the pieces afterwards and if he thinks you’re pleased or relieved he won’t allow you to do that.

How did they meet? Could you invite her and her parents round for dinner?

[AnonyMousee]

Christmas isn't as important to some as others, I don't think my mother would have had a problem with this because we are very low key, low pressure when it comes to the holidays.
Could you speak to the girlfriends parents? Just to discuss with them if they are 100% okay with this as you're surprised they don't want their 16 year old around over Christmas?

[LIZS]

Is gf over 16? I would be very wary of hosting a vulnerable girl with ED for any length of time without clearer insight, let alone throwing your emotionally fragile ds1 into the mix. In fact it sounds like a potentially codependent and volatile relationship. How did they meet? Say no to ds1, your house , your rules and there is no space for her. I think you also need to speak to her parents and make it clear that you cannot entertain her overnight but perhaps a day.

[Haffdonga]

I am not an expert in anorexia (and genuinely happy to be told I'm wrong by people who are) but my gut feeling is that the people around an anorexic person shouldn't change their own healthy eating patterns to accommodate an anorexic's wishes.

It sounds dangerous for your vulnerable ds that he is agreeing not to eat in front of her, especially if they are planning to spend long days at a time together. That's starting to make him behave as if food for him is a guilty secret, skip meals himself etc. Likewise I would not attempt to change your own family's meal habits to accommodate her. If she wants to stay with your family, she has to accept that you will be having meals together at new year.

I'm not suggesting your ds or your family should try to push her to eat or join you at meal times but she has to know that coming to your house there will be regular family mealtimes and your ds will be eating with his family. If she can't handle seeing ds or other people eating then she's really not well enough to be staying with you.

Would your ds accept that it's in his gf's best interests that food in your family is kept 'normalised' and for him to model a healthy eating habit for her?

[Jimjamjong]

Personally I think it's a bit harsh to refuse to have her. I think you should have her around, rearrange sleeping arrangements so your DS1 has his room with his girlfriend only but don't change your eating arrangements or usual Christmas celebrations. He will be an adult in 2 years time, he has to prepare for that and that includes having his girlfriend over and taking responsibility for her.