To leave 7 week old alone in bedroomwith a baby monitor?

[HollyGoLoudly1]

Wise mumsnetters, please advise - SIDS advice says if baby is sleeping that they should be in the same room as you until 6 months. I want to start a bedtime routine with baby going down in the bedroom at 8pm. Is this ok if I am listening in using a monitor? Or do they literally have to be in the same room (i.e. living room) until I go to bed?

@BlueBug45 I'll quote you directly "why do you presume babies automatically wake up when you carry them to different rooms? And oddly my daughter detects when no one is in the room with her as she suddenly wakes up and starts crying but least I can have a shit knowing she isn't dead."

This is perhaps the most holier-than-thou statement I've read on MN in a long time.

Awaiting your response as to what you think should be done if child is asleep in a cot that cannot be moved or fit inside a toilet/kitchen/whatever, and mum has do to use the toilet or eat some food - you know, all the luxuries of life.

LisaSimpsonsbff they must have massive houses and extremely easy babies. I don't have anything that could be moved around from room to room that fit my children after 2-3 months old other than a car seat. And lots of info out saying it's dangerous to leave babies napping in a car seat for extended periods.

@brookshelley you are interpreting it as holier than thou due to your own poor comprehension skills.

I suppose some people carry them round in a sling a lot, but I couldn't do that for long periods in the house as it started to hurt my back, and I'm usually fit with no back issues.

I don't have anything that could be moved around from room to room that fit my children after 2-3 months old other than a car seat. And lots of info out saying it's dangerous to leave babies napping in a car seat for extended periods

Yes, and that's the thing - we all have different hardlines on safety. I have never let DS nap in his bouncer, and our car seat doesn't leave the car because I'm so paranoid about leaving him in it too long. The few times we've coslept have been awful because I wake up in a panic that I could have suffocated him - I'm not saying it isn't safe but it doesn't feel safe for me. We don't all have the same instincts.

On this thread it seems the lullaby trust is the absolute law - except the bit about baby sleeping on separate sleep surface to you, apparently they don't really mean that. And if you went onto a thread where a woman wanted to quit breastfeeding because it was hard and said 'but what about the SIDS risk?!' you'd (rightly) be flamed to high heaven. People pick and choose the advice they think is really important and then massively judge those who choose other bits!

This debate rages on and on.

It depends on so many things, your attitude to risk, your confidence, your personal experiences, your age.

I cannot conceive of having a baby with you 24 hours a day. In my mind that is just silly, guidelines or not. But then I am a different generation who put our babies in their cots within a few weeks, and during the day they were out in their prams getting fresh air.

I do wonder whether so many babies suffer from sleep problems these days because they have not had a "routine" or have been able to self soothe. The mothers mantra was always if they are content leave them be, don't move them, or wake them, or mess around with them, or disturb them.

On this thread it seems the lullaby trust is the absolute law

I don't think the lullaby trust is law, but they publish their evidence base on the website so it's a bloody good place to start if you want to make decisions about safer sleep.

My first wasn't asleep in a room alone until she was 9 months! I used to just put her to bed and lie in my bedroom reading or watching Netflix (she went to bed at 7) I know this sounds boring for some people but honestly I wouldn't risk it, especially not with a 7 week old!!!!

I have a 7 week old now and feel guilty leaving the room to do the dishes never mind leaving him to sleep alone.

Also babies that young don't need a sleep routine!! With my first we only started a sleep routine around 9 months and she's 2 now and sleeps 6.30/7.00pm to around 7.30/8.00.

Honestly just enjoy your baby instead of trying to make it sleep like an adult. My 7 week old slept 12-5 last night and it was great but highly unexpected!

I don't think the lullaby trust is law, but they publish their evidence base on the website so it's a bloody good place to start if you want to make decisions about safer sleep.

I've actually read some of the original studies (I'm an academic when I'm at work so could get past journal paywalls) and it's all a lot less certain than a lot of people on this thread think. Almost all the SIDS studies are retrospective (no one is randomly assigning half of babies to sleep alone and half not) so controlling for confounding factors is very hard. People are saying 'hearing you protects from SIDS' like it's established fact but it's not - it's one theory, not yet proven. People also quote statistics without the context needed to make them meaningful - '75% of SIDS cases the child was alone'/'50% of the deaths were in cots and 50% cosleeping' - that's meaningless without knowing what percentage of the overall cohort were alone or cosleeping.

People pick and choose the advice they think is really important and then massively judge those who choose other bits!

This.
This x 100

The advice on room sharing is well intentioned, but I either don't think it was meant to be taken as literally as some people take it, or the writers had never had a child.

I remember reading a post on FB from a mum whose baby had unexpectedly fallen asleep in their spare room. She was bored, needed a wee etc, but just conceded thst she'd be stuck there now because she simply couldn't leave the room.
The advice has just fanned anxiety for people already anxious.
On another thread now, a new mum has asked if it's OK to leave her sleeping baby for a quick shower - the response is most people saying that's fine, so it's not even consistent views over Mumsnet.

For what its worth, I took a middle approach. Baby had different nights and days from birth (so nights were darker, quieter etc), and switched into day/night mode immediately. She got herself into a 7.30-7.30 (with feeds, but went straight back) routine, but we kept her in the lounge in the evenings until 3m, as until then she wasn't bothered about the TV etc. Then upstairs to our room until we joined her from 3-5m, and then into her own room a bit earlier than we'd have liked, because we were disturbing each other too much and her sleep as suffering.

Day naps, initially in the moses downstairs, or sling or pram, and we'd just mill round the downstairs, but not necessarily in the same room, but gradually relaxed it.

Aside from the sids advice, I think it's much easier to have a baby who is used to sleeping near you talking/noise of TV etc in the evening than a baby who needs silence and wakes easily as they're used to being alone in a quiet room.

My best sleeper was DD2 who was in hospital most of the 6 months so had constant machines beeping and people coming in and out, once home she could sleep through pretty much anything, and still doesn't wake when her brother cries now shes 2.

Aside from the sids advice, I think it's much easier to have a baby who is used to sleeping near you talking/noise of TV etc in the evening than a baby who needs silence and wakes easily as they're used to being alone in a quiet room.

Yeah, I bet it is - can you tell DS? He slept in busy rooms really happily until about 12 weeks when he started being constantly woken up by unexpected noises. That was when we started putting him to bed in the evenings - it was consequence not cause; we didn't make him a light sleeper, he just is. His dad is too (I'm not, which may be why cosleeping feels so scary for me) and I don't think making either of them try and sleep in a bright, busy room does anything other than making them awake but grumpy.

You can also reduce the risk by being wealthier, not being a young parent, and (I believe, I'm going by memory here), by being white.

Being a young parent in poverty increases the risk. Apparently. Or it might be that young, poor parents are statistically more likely to smoke, and engage in dangerous practices. It might be that a higher proportion of those who will ignore the smoking/sleep on back guidelines, will also ignore the room sleeping guidelines, so we don't know whether it's being in a separate room that increases risk, or that parents who are more likely to break one (minor) guideline are more likely to break a bigger one.

We don't know what causes sids, and the research doesn't show that any of the risk factors cause sids. What they show is a correlation. Given that wealthier families have a lower sids rate than poorer families, there is a correlation between driving a Mercedes and a lower risk of cot death. But clearly driving a merc doesn't cause cot death.

The amount of blame and hysterical scaremongering on this thread is astounding. I also agree that most sleep problems are caused and encouraged by the outlook that babies shouldn’t have to self settle, that they should be cuddled 24/7 and that self sacrifice is the price you pay.

I also think that there would be a far less instance of PND if people weren’t constantly guilted into doing this/taking that action because well.... “you’d rather be safe than sorry.”

To those who never left your babies for a nano second, your babies aren’t alive because of it you know. It doesn’t follow that if you’d left them that they would die, and yet that’s the kind of blame that is being heaped on people who feel that they want to dare leaving their babies in another room for any period of time.

Someone actually stated upthread that anyone who has lost a baby to sids must be feeling dreadful at the thought that someone has said that it’s ok to leave a sleeping baby. As if they’re somehow to blame. Anyone who thinks that should be ashamed of themselves. Babies die from sids regardless of how many precautions you take.

The sleep guidelines need rewriting, and if we’re looking at risk factors they might want to start with cosleeping. but tell anyone on here that cosleeping is dangerous and you will be flamed to high hell and back. Yet leave your baby for a second to go to the toilet and you’re putting your baby at risk.

Some of you need to give your heads a warble.

but tell anyone on here that cosleeping is dangerous and you will be flamed to high hell and back.

Maybe because it doesn’t reflect the evidence. SAFE cosleeping is no more risky than cot sleeping and some studies have even suggested it is a protective factor against sids.

You can also reduce the risk by being wealthier, not being a young parent, and (I believe, I'm going by memory here), by being white.

Actually being Bangladeshi drops the risk compared to white women, but that's probably about smoking rates. They did a really interesting study in the Bradford cohort with white and Bangladeshi working class women and basically they found that both groups (on average - obviously not every single woman from either group) were only following some of the safe sleep guidance and that most of them were continuing to do what they found culturally normal - so Asian women were giving their babies pillows and putting them in too many clothes to sleep, white women were putting them in their own room too early and a much bigger proportion of them were smoking. Basically people seem to do what feels right to them and then sort of retrofit it to the guidelines. I can't help but feel that some of these 'of course you just have them in the living room with you' posters might have changed their tune if they'd had DS waking up screaming literally every 15 minutes in the evening - I know they think I'm terribly selfish but I promise it was making him miserable too!

www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/news-and-research/baby-friendly-research/infant-health-research/infant-health-research-bed-sharing-infant-sleep-and-sids/

Co-sleeping doesn't work out for all babies and parents.

Use a breathing monitor and a baby monitor and let your baby sleep in a comfortable environment on their back.

Personally I would pay attention to what your baby wants with routine. We didn't decide on our own the routine our daughter has she hinted strongly at what she wants and we went from there.

If I was ever so lucky to be able to put DD down for a nap I definitely wouldn't sit there staring at her the whole time. I certainly wouldn't sit there with crossed legs waiting for her to wake up so I could go to the toilet.

I was told just 4 years back that co-sleeping was dangerous and never to do it.

I was told that too but had to rethink when I kept falling asleep breastfeeding due to exhaustion.

Wow I didn't expect this thread to kick off the way it has! Thanks to everyone who has replied - interesting reading from both sides of the argument.

I only started thinking about nighttime routines as it seems to me like my baby IS starting to develop his own routine - I'm not trying to force anything or 'make him sleep like an adult'. I consider myself incredibly lucky he is doing 4-5 hour stretches at nighttime. However, when he is moved from his Moses basket to his crib (Next to Me) he ALWAYS wakes up and takes far longer than normal to settle again so I think he really dislikes being disturbed.

So what we were thinking was whenever he goes to sleep near to a typical 'bedtime' time, we would put him down bathed, changed, in his sleeping bag, and in his crib to prevent disturbing him.

I had already asked family+friends and got similarly mixed responses much like on here! To be honest I've still not made my mind about what to do. However I will say that I do happily leave him by himself during the day while I go to the toilet, do dishes etc if he is sleeping - do people honestly take their babies into the toilet with them??

Excellent posts from Lisasimpsonsbff and Sleeplikeasloth.

I do believe you can work towards a routine at this age. You're teaching them night from day in it's most primitive form. I put my daughter in her cot in her nursery, with a motion sensor, after a bath and feed at around 7pm. Then when she woke for her next feed, she would sleep in my room for the rest of the night as I was breast feeding. By 6 months she spent the whole night in her room.Obviously you have to make an informed decision about this, but my daughter would not settle if she was with me downstairs. In fact if I did that, she would scream for hours as she would get horribly over tired. I never had time to eat let alone time with my husband before I introduced this routine, and was exhausted from hourly wake ups and constant battles to get her to sleep.We spent night after night sat in the dark, making no noise! But it did work for us and she loves her cot and bedroom and settles herself to sleep very easily now. She had severe reflux so it did take a while to get to that stage admittedly!

What people mean by 'safe cosleeping' is so varied though - some people just mean 'sober mother, not on a sofa', others advise very specific things around bedding and sleep positioning which I suspect are much less often followed (especially in winter!). I found that, contrary to what I'd been told, I did not have a natural breastfeeding instinct to stay in the C position around him - either because I'm the kind of icequeen negligent mother who leaves him to the go to the loo, or because it's quite far from how I normally sleep.

Also, that link doesn't really endorse cosleeping per se. It says cosleeping makes breastfeeding more likely and if it's a choice between cosleeping or giving up breastfeeding you should pick cosleeping. That's not the same as saying it's the objectively best option - it's a piece of admirable pragmatism that I think we could do with in the rest of the safe sleep guidelines.