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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the men who put the Grenfell tower model on the bonfire should not be arrested

113 replies

Leobynature · 06/11/2018 19:04

I don’t wish to upset or offend anyone with this post.

I am a non-white woman. I am upset and disgusted by the men who were filmed putting a model of Grenfel tower on the bonfire. What’s more upsetting is the fact that model depicted images of black children being burried alive.

However this act had taken place in the privacy of their own homes so I am wondering whether it is in the public’s interest to arrest and charge these men. I’m personally more concerned that our privacy is no longer respected and we could be held account for moral acts we do in our own homes. How many of us make prejudice, racist or other comments in ‘the safety’ of our homes. Is this more of a social concern than a legal one.

Or is it the uploading of the image which makes it subjectable to a public order offence.

I would rather see the man power, resources and money being used here used somewhere else.

What does everyone else think?

OP posts:
FieryGhoulie · 07/11/2018 07:11

I can't get my head around the amount of detail they put into it. 😞 sickos.

Neshoma · 07/11/2018 07:12

They have been released. No charge as yet.

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 07/11/2018 07:24

I think some people have a 'brainwave' (epic fail) idea and don't stop to think about the implications of carrying it out. A bit like the TV bod who dressed up as a Saudi executioner (of Jamal Khashoggi)

Bezalelle · 07/11/2018 07:40

It's ironic in that no arrests have been made in the Grenfell inquiry...

Gingerrogered · 07/11/2018 08:12

The problem is, if you punish things like this, eventually you will fall foul of the rules too.

A good example of this is the Trans debate. There are many women involved in that debate who have always been PC and careful to stick to the PC agenda and language have now found themselves on the wrong side of the debate in PC terms because they won't buy into the idea transwomen are women. Fortunately thus far they have only faced private prosecutions, but they have been prevented from assembly and discussion. It may well happen that the GRA reform might actually criminalise them.

There are lots of issues bubbling under which seek to normalize themselves and could well in the future be the thing the thought police won't want us to talk about. Off the top of my head that includes Paedophilia, FGM, child brides, polygamy.

And many of the people applauding the criminalization of thought on here will suddenly find they are criminalised.

hilbobaggins · 07/11/2018 08:18

They expressed private views in their own back garden. it doesn’t matter that those views were utterly repugnant. I’m amazed that anyone thinks that arresting people for expressing private views in their own private space is ok. Should I be arrested for telling my partner that I don’t believe trans women are women?

I also can’t see how sharing the video online makes this an prosecutable offence. What about everyone who so virtuously shared the video online so that others could see it - should they all be prosecuted too?

There is something much larger at stake here than a video we’ll all have forgotten by the weekend, and that is free speech. The police now appear to be investigating people because they have to be seen to “do the right thing” in the eyes of the mob. Same thing happened with Couunt Dankula. It’s not right.

peardropexplodes · 07/11/2018 08:20

I agree OP and think we live in very Orwellian times.

surferjet · 07/11/2018 08:23

Yes.
Let’s bring in a law whereby anyone who shares these videos are prosecuted for ‘distribution’ thus adding to distress.

Veganfortheanimals · 07/11/2018 08:24

I cannot for a second understand how they even thought of such a thing...how sick and twisted must someone be to think this up...and these people walk amongst us..I'm glad it was in the news ,I'm glad they feel scared ..I don't think the police should take it further,I think the police have more important things to do...I'm sure the men have learned their lessons

RoboticMary · 07/11/2018 08:25

@peardropexplodes I also think we’re living in Orwellian times.

longwayoff · 07/11/2018 08:39

Everyone is entitled to hold private opinions no matter how obnoxious others may find them. When, however, they put those opinions into the public domain, it invites public comment. The consensus is that we don't like it, we find it offensive and disgusting. The general feeling of revulsion is such that it is an offence to public decency and may well lead to a breach of the peace. To incite this by publishing the event leading to it is a criminal act.

hilbobaggins · 07/11/2018 09:18

longwayoff You are saying that everyone is entitled to their viewpoint is until “we” find that viewpoint offensive, at which point it is potentially criminal. This is the very opposite of what free speech is about. “We” do not get to decide which viewpoints are and are not acceptable under the law thank god.

longwayoff · 07/11/2018 09:48

I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that legislation exists under which these idiots can be charged with a criminal offence.

Plessis · 07/11/2018 09:51

They expressed private views in their own back garden. it doesn’t matter that those views were utterly repugnant. I’m amazed that anyone thinks that arresting people for expressing private views in their own private space is ok. Should I be arrested for telling my partner that I don’t believe trans women are women?

I agree. I think they sound like utterly horrible people and I can't imagine doing what they did and laughing about it, in fact I am concerned for their mental health. But no crime should have been committed here.

Buster72 · 07/11/2018 09:54

Longwayoff, please point to that legislation, because many are curious to know.

Plessis · 07/11/2018 09:58

I am pretty sure there is no legislation that exists that would make this a criminal offence.They didn't even share it deliberately on facebook.

smithsally884 · 07/11/2018 10:01

Althouh i share many peoples disgust, burning effigies is a central part of the centuries old British tradition of bonfire night.Who decides which effigies are ok and which are not? Any prosecution would be extremely unlikely to succeed and just be a waste of taxpayers money.

greendale17 · 07/11/2018 10:09

They get everything they deserved. Hopefully their employers will follow suit and sack them. Disgusting people.

dapplegrey · 07/11/2018 10:12

I bet all those guys were wearing poppies....

Not sure what this implication is. People who wear a poppy to remember the millions killed in the First War are somehow similar to those who do vile things like burn an effigy of Grenfell Tower?
Pretty offensive comment if that’s what you mean, flyaway.

1099 · 07/11/2018 10:21

The Legislation is The Public Order Act 1986, Sec 4a, please don't be misled by the fact that it says Public in the title, offences under this Act can be committed in Private or Public. There are certain defences where the action was inside a dwelling but since not many of us have bonfires indoors I suspect they won't be using those.

WomanOfTime · 07/11/2018 10:21

YANBU. What they did was horrible, insensitive and in very bad taste. If I knew them in person I could never see them in the same light again.

It still isn't a matter for the police. Orwellian indeed.

Most of us wouldn't make racist comments even in our own homes, but I'd guess the majority of us have made comments that someone would perceive as hateful or offensive. It's very dangerous to start labelling opinions, even very unpleasant ones, as crimes.

Buster72 · 07/11/2018 10:34

1099
They have been arrested under sec 4a, in any event sec 4 and 4a require intent.
Until that is proved there is no likelihood of prosecution

Shockers · 07/11/2018 10:37

I knew what the poppy comment meant.

Unfortunately, like the George Flag, the poppy has become one of the tools that far right groups use as propaganda. It became so prevalent that the Royal British Legion issued a statement to the effect that no group has ever banned the wearing of remembrance poppies, as groups such as Britain First put out statements that Muslim groups had insisted they be banned. They’re the same kind of groups who urge people to share a photo of a bacon sandwich before fb removes it.

They’re twats, just like the ones in the video.

Most wearers of poppies do so in respectful remembrance, but there are those who use them as a sign of divisive patriotism. Luckily, they are in the minority.

Neshoma · 07/11/2018 11:36

It's ironic in that no arrests have been made in the Grenfell inquiry... As the inquiry has just started what offences have been committed and by whom???

I also wish posters would stop going on about their employers, they could self employed. There's a group of people running around in circles, wringing their hands shouting charge them...I hope they lose their jobs. These people should stop being sheep and look at the wider picture.

longwayoff · 07/11/2018 11:37

There you are buster, you answered your own question.

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