To not understand this? From a school? Giving bad reviews is illegal isn't it..

[Momasita]

So my dd needs a head teachers reference to help with grammar school application and the head doesn't give them?
She or her staff mark the tick box stuff, Wright numbers... On how eligible dd is but the part of the form where she needs words.. Is blank?

How is this legal?
People warned me about this... And I thought to myself.. Dd has such glowing reports our head couldn't possibly leave her box blank!!

Now other parents come out of woodwork to nervously say... She doesn't belive in grammars and she won't help. She has been over heard sneering at parents who tutor etc.

I'm just astounded. How is this even legal??
My dd form teacher... Who also happens to be the heads daughter has told us she hopes the form helps??

I'm thinking.... No! Of course leaving heads comments blank hasn't helped.the review panel will have minuets to sift through hundreds of applications and they will be full of in depth heads glowing reports!

I can't get my head round it. I also rang the office and got a nervous... We don't know much about these forms....

BTW by daughter wasn't even tutored like nearly a large % of her year has been, not only due to 11+ but also teacher retention issues!!
We couldn't afford to tutor her.

Are you sure Grammar schools need a reference? Normally it's exam based and that's it.

The independent schools do but accept that some schools won't provide them, and often accept school reports instead.

Do you know other Heads give references? Whatever is said can be a total minefield, even if it’s positive it can be open to interpretation and parents can blame the school if the child isn’t successful. Also what if a school doesn’t think a child is suited to grammar? They can’t say as it undermines the parents’ wish.

Most workplaces no longer give personal references for fear of being sued. I’d assume many schools now have the same blanket policy.

What makes you think the head is legally obliged to fill that form in? That’s not me being snarky, I don’t know the rules. Presumably it’s optional to apply to a grammar so she doesn’t have to?

It’s not illegal to give a bad review/reference by the way, as long as it’s factualky correct. That one I do know!

Why would it be illegal to leave the comments section blank?

Yes other heads give refences!
Our dd didn't pass the exam.
There are a few boxes on the form for heads to tick... Eg.. Do you feel this child is suitable for grammar.

She has ticked yes.
Then there is a 3 rating... OK ish... 2 rating... Good and a 1 rating... Which is 100% yes.

Brilliant. They ticked that but I can't be grateful for that because Dd own grades and aptitude and past performance is what that rating deserves!

The part for actual words is left blank.
The heads comments on reports have been glowing.

She is agaisnt 11 +. She does the barest minimum and the cheek of her daughter.. Saying... I hope that helps!

It’s not illegal, it is frustrating. We aren’t in a grammar area but some state primaries here won’t give references for private schools at 11+. My daughter’s Head just wrote “Our school has a policy of no references due to lack of resources.” I photocopied reports and they were used instead.

I didn’t say it’s illegal. I said many work places don’t for fear of being sued if a former employee doesn’t get a job. Or just for the huge hassle involved in nitpicking an honest, but unwelcome, reference. Schools have so few resources I can imagine it’s often a policy not to give personal references to avoid getting sucked into discussions over their contents. After all, unless the kid set the school alight, it’s all pretty subjective...

purple that's interesting! Can you enlighten me?

I thought you had to give barest good review.

I'm not stating what head has done is illegal. But if yiu apply for a job and your last job gives you a bare bones reference... It's not going to look good.

We know of 5 dc who are in same position, 3 in catchment schools... The head has written extra to say why child is ok for grammar and 2 out of catchment non partner where head has backed up grammar suitability.

If the head didn't feel our dd was upto it... If course we would understand reluctance to endorse.

I’m confused. If she didn’t pass the exam, what’s the point of the form?

Why would it be illegal?

How could it possibly be?

auto

That's a much clearer position.
We have been left also putting in reports but only heads remarks so it may look forged who knows. We have been thrown into a very tricky position.

Did you use whole report?.

What can we say when we know it's political... But just left blank. I would prefer them to state why they left it blank!

www.gov.uk/work-reference

This helps with information about work references. Employers don’t have to give one. They can just give brief details. They can say what they want as long as it is fair and accurate. I don’t know whether the same law applies to school references.

I thought you had to give barest good review.

A reference only has to be factual.

Therefore lots of companies just give a basic "A worked for B company from C date to D date" to save themselves any grief from anyone who considers the refernce they've been give as unfactual.

If you were sacked for misconduct or the likes then they can write that. It just has to be able to be backed up.

What law do you think has been broken?

OP, if the Head had filled it in but said “DD is bright and her school performance is consistent, but I feel may struggle with the rigours of the grammar environment” (just an example but one based on the kind of feedback I’ve heard given to parents of kids who didn’t pass the 11+) You’d be baying for blood. It doesn’t actually allow them to be honest. It’s by far safer to tick the box but say nothing. You must see that.

Did your dd fail by much? If she did, might be better to reconsider, there’s a lot of pressure on dc in grammars.

If she narrowly missed, then make an apt with the ht and ask her to fill in the form. If not, copy all dd’s school reports and send them with a note saying your HT refused to fill in the form.

It's irrelevant that the teacher wishing you well with the form is the headteacher' daughter, she is there as a teacher in her own right, with her own views and under the restrictions that the headteacher puts in place. She may or may not agree with the head's opinion or actions concerning grammar schools.

Submit school reports alongside the form.

Purple it's for border line cases...

If dd missed Mark by long margin... One wouldn't bother but in border line case you ask panel to review it....

Our dd class is full of tutored kids. Tutored not only for 11+ ( for several years, hours extra hw every week) but also for dc never destined for 11 +! Due to major teaching issues in our year.

My dd nearly passed without tutor, inspite of major teaching issues.. And major major home issues....

She missed by quarter of mark! We want a review because she loves the school!

I think it is a massive shame and very unfair - and that’s coming from someone who also opposes the grammar system. It simply can’t be fair that your daughter’s chances of success in the appeal can be so influenced by the head’s personal ideology. I have no idea what you can do, but I’d probably start by contacting the grammar school and explaining the situation.

That makes sense.

I’d just fill in your bits of the form. Write (or explain) that the head doesn’t write references for grammar schools and send it off. Plenty of other prospective students will be in the same position.

Why would it be illegal? What even makes you think it should be?

Lots maybe.

But one thinks in real life where nepotism also occurs of course but not getting a job in mums school... It's patronising to say hope this helps when mum has done the minimum on a form to fill it out with dd own accolades. In real life we usually need good refences. People that write that extra for us to get the job.

Inspite of major teaching issues.

It's patronising to say hope this helps when mum has done the minimum on a form to fill it out with dd own accolades.

But the head did the “minimum”. She could have refused to fill it out altogether. It’s alsk entirely possible the daughter didn’t even look at it.

Do you think purple! We don't know you see.
We have never gone through this before! All we have heard is heads going out of their way to help.

Which to me is kind of the point? To do the best for your clients?

Like any job! Your a florist and your client request garish flowers for wedding... You do it.

Your a hair dresser.. Your client wants horrid lurid green hair...you do it.

Your a head.. Your Client wants a review on a form.. You hate grammars but you do it.because it's your bloody job.

Its not your place to assert your own views or opinions in. It's what your client wants.