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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not understand this? From a school? Giving bad reviews is illegal isn't it..

126 replies

Momasita · 02/11/2018 23:04

So my dd needs a head teachers reference to help with grammar school application and the head doesn't give them?
She or her staff mark the tick box stuff, Wright numbers... On how eligible dd is but the part of the form where she needs words.. Is blank?

How is this legal?
People warned me about this... And I thought to myself.. Dd has such glowing reports our head couldn't possibly leave her box blank!!

Now other parents come out of woodwork to nervously say... She doesn't belive in grammars and she won't help. She has been over heard sneering at parents who tutor etc.

I'm just astounded. How is this even legal??
My dd form teacher... Who also happens to be the heads daughter ShockHmm has told us she hopes the form helps??

I'm thinking.... No! Of course leaving heads comments blank hasn't helped.the review panel will have minuets to sift through hundreds of applications and they will be full of in depth heads glowing reports!

I can't get my head round it. I also rang the office and got a nervous... We don't know much about these forms....

OP posts:
JeanPagett · 03/11/2018 00:58

You are in no way a client of the headmistress, what an incredibly entitled view.

The headmistress has ticked the relevant boxes and given there are no genuinely extenuating circumstances e.g. illness or bereavement to be explained, the headmistress has done all that is necessary to assist your daughter. Given she didn't pass the exam it may well be the grammar isn't the best fit for her.

I'm not quite sure why you're saying you didn't "buy into" the process and didn't understand the process. The process is pretty straightforward, especially for someone in education like yourself, and if you're trying to send your kid to a grammar school then you've pretty well bought into the process as far as I'm concerned.

PinkAvocado · 03/11/2018 00:59

It must be frustrating when you know other heads have written extra on the form but the grammar school will see that your school’s HT never writes anything so therefore it won’t be a deciding factor.

Butttons · 03/11/2018 00:59

Your OP states that "the head doesn't give references". Why are you expecting her to change the rules specifically for your daughter?

IDSNeighbour · 03/11/2018 01:19

The responses to this make me really sad because they illustrate yet another advantage the children I teach have just because their parents have the money to send them to private school.

Most of our children don't take the 11+. We don't like them to leave at 11 ecause we go up to 13 so obviosuly we like to keep them till then.

But those who do take the 11+ are given a familiarisation session and those who fail and decide to appeal are guided and helped through the appeals process. We write references, photocopy good bits of work, send any information that might help etc. Because our parents and children are (literally!) our clients. They pay 1000s of pounds a term to be 'prepped' for their next school of choice. Whether it's a school we like the ethos of or not.

Now it seems a child in a state school can't even rely on her headteacher for a basic reference.

YANBU, OP - that's poor.

mellicauli · 03/11/2018 01:41

Go in there and talk face to facE. If that doesn't work talk to the governors: she is not there to espouse her political view, she's there to do the best for her pupils within the existing framework. And she appears to be failing on that point. I also don't think it's appropriate her daughter works there either - talk about a conflict of interests..

RainbowsArePretty · 03/11/2018 01:50

You have made so many assumptions of the Head. You are also incredibly entitled, you are not her client

mathanxiety · 03/11/2018 02:30

It isn't the place of the HT to refuse to co-operate with parents asking for a reference for another school. Whether she likes grammars or not, she should honour the preferences of the parents, her partners in education of the child, and moreover the partners who bear the primary responsibility for decision making for the child.

She was happy to accept the parents' decision to send their child to her school, after all. Now she needs to respect the second decision the parents are making about their child's education, do her duty to the child and fill out the full form.

Is there a board of governors you could contact to complain?

Could you send a covering note about the notorious anti-grammar bias of this HT and ask the grammar committee to look at school reports over the years? They must have encountered this unprofessional HT before.

mathanxiety · 03/11/2018 02:32

She's not being asked to change any rules, Buttons, except her own made up rules based on her anti-grammar bias.

Theyprobablywill · 03/11/2018 03:06

Wouldn't the child's place at the school been allocated on admissions criteria (distance etc) rather than the head teacher's preference.

Mumoftwinsandanother · 03/11/2018 03:34

Hi OP, are you going for the Bucks selection review? So is my dd. In the town I live in (which is a Herts town but on the border of Bucks and lots of the kids in the town sit the Bucks 11+) all the heads leave the comments section blanks although they fill in the details about what the child has achieved. They usually provide a covering note to say that they don't consider themselves qualified to give an opinion on whether the child is suitable for grammar as they are not working in a grammar system. Its a little churlish but I expect completely legal (provided it is a blanket policy) when they don't work in the Bucks system. I think you can relax that there will be a number of children in ooc schools where the head will not comment on suitability etc. All you can do is attach the previous glowing reports and explain on your parental form that it is not the school's policy to fill in this part of the form.

Thisreallyisafarce · 03/11/2018 03:37
  1. You are not a client.
  2. Even if you were, when you are talking about people doing what their client wants, that is a choice, not an obligation, unless the relationship is client-legal representative.
Alfie190 · 03/11/2018 03:48

You have some strange views OP. Why on earth do you think a head is legally required to fill your forms in, of course they are not. And no you are not a client and no they do not have to bow and scrape to you. Get over yourself.

sashh · 03/11/2018 04:22

And I'm surprised you work in education with your poor spelling...

Not just the spelling.

OP

Just write a covering letter including copies of reports and saying the HT doesn't write referencess for grammars.

As for the 'client' and what HT's are supposed to do. Would you be happy for your dd to not be taught for say 2 and a half hours (30 x 5mins) while someone writes a reference for each child?

Unicyclethief · 03/11/2018 04:29

OP, google how a mother’s education influences their children’s outcomes.

Whisky2014 · 03/11/2018 04:38

In real life we usually need good refences. People that write that extra for us to get the job. hmm I'm not so sure these days. The last two jobs I had only checked basic dates of employment. I think they used to be able to ask about sickness but im pretty sure they are not allowed these days.
My last job actually the company I worked for did not write references, it was policy!

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 03/11/2018 04:47

I'm not stating what head has done is illegal. But if yiu apply for a job and your last job gives you a bare bones reference... It's not going to look good

Thats not true at all in fact most companies expect exactly that type of refence these days.

A letter on headed paper saying i can cofirm thst x worked at our Company between xxxx and xxxx, their standard of work was generally good/bad/indifferent. They need managing or they are motivated indepentant worker. Hope this meets your requirements. Yours sincerley Company manager.

My previous place of work this was policy as some one said in fear of being sued or indeed in larger organisations the person right at the top wouldnt even know the person they were giving the reference for. Sounds like the head has ticked the boxes the equlivent of the statements ive given in my job refence template and refrained from writing comments

Perfectly fine

As for the im not saying its illegal - you ask seversl times in your op how its legal which suggests you think it should be illgal

naivetyisthenewblack · 03/11/2018 04:56

Just write a covering letter including copies of reports and saying the HT doesn't write referencess for grammars.

This.

mathanxiety · 03/11/2018 04:58

I realise that comparisons between the US and the UK are not always appropriate, but almost every university applicant in the US asks former high school teachers to write a reference, and references get written in the vast majority of cases. References from teaches are required by most universities. It's considered to be part of what teachers are paid for and they find the time to compose a few meaningful paragraphs and upload them to the relevant platform, working to a strict deadline.

This is in response to Would you be happy for your dd to not be taught for say 2 and a half hours (30 x 5mins) while someone writes a reference for each child?

Unicyclethief · 03/11/2018 05:02

They do in the U.K. too math (usually by someone who knows your child a little better than a guidance counsellor/teacher for one semester) but this is not for university, this is for secondary school.

RavenWings · 03/11/2018 05:05

I think yabu OP. While it's annoying for you there is no obligation for the head to write a report (and in any case they seem to have filled it out, just not written in the comment boxes). I've been asked to write reports for kids transferring to UK schools myself and I don't do it, none of the staff do. Generally I think parents photocopy reports and that is acceptable.

mathanxiety · 03/11/2018 05:26

The teacher you choose to ask in the US is very unlikely to be someone who taught you for just one semester. It's supposed to be a meaningful letter. A US high school counselor is more than the 'guidance counselor' of UK schools and will have met each student under his or her wing multiple times individually over the four years of HS, and be very familiar with the student's academic standing.

The way education is set up in England, a favourable reference accompanying an application to a grammar school might as well be an application to university.

Unicyclethief · 03/11/2018 05:28

Why?

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 03/11/2018 05:47

@Momasita you need to go to elevenplusexams.co.uk go on the appeal forums there. There is a wealth of knowledge and support to guide you through the process. Remember that the 11 plus is just a snap shot. Those who are borderline often have the most to gain from a grammar school, particularly with no tutoring. Those not in a grammar area can find it hard to grasp how pernicious tutoring has become. Children even in private schools being tutored from yr2. Those are the ones who will struggle.

prh47bridge · 03/11/2018 08:16

Just noticed from your thread title, "Giving bad reviews is illegal isn't it". The head hasn't given a bad review. They have not given a reference. But no, contrary to what many people think, it is not illegal to give a bad review or a bad reference as long as the person writing is expressing an honest opinion.

Pics · 03/11/2018 08:22

Have you considered that the head may actually think that your daughter is not suitable for the grammar school system, regardless of her personal views on them? If so, leaving it blank is better. However, i suspect that the box may well be there for information about extenuating circumstances such as illness around the time if the exam or SEN rather than personal opinion.