To think that if you’re told a phrase is offensive, you don’t insist on using it?

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Yes, a TAAT. The context is that we explained to mumsnet HQ that the phrase ‘beyond the Pale’ is found eyebrow-raising by many (but not all) Irish people.

The Pale was the name given to an area of Ireland under English rule and those outside that area were considered uncivilised aka ‘beyond the pale’. This is a phrase that is only used with raised eyebrows in Ireland and certainly feels inappropriate, if not offensive, coming from an English person.

Mumsnet use it as part of their racism guidelines as in that they only ban language that is ‘beyond the pale’. Mumsnet accept the origins of the phrase. However, they insist on using this phrase to describe whether something is or is not racist.

Given the context, AIBU in requesting that Mumsnet find another phrase in their racism guidelines?

Well, since the GFA I can be both British and Irish as well as from Northern Ireland.

I have only asked (on my other thread) that HaitchQ use another phrase in the talk guidelines.

And after all, they can police trans issues quite strongly and very differently from how they police discriminatory posts and attitudes based on any other of the protected characteristics in the Equality Act.

other of the protected characteristics in the Equality Act.
Ah yes, because in your opinion it is a racist term
when lots of evidence from other posters on this thread shows it is not
so the act does not apply

your prejudice wants it removed
everybody elses tolerance wants it to stay

Why are you insisting on saying I am only talking about this phrase, when I have repeatedly said that for me it is about much more a general tone and attitude towards Irish posters?

Asking HaitchQ to remove a problematic phrase does not make me prejudiced and it is a complete nonsense to extrapolate that. And a slur on me and my character.

your prejudice wants it removed
everybody elses tolerance wants it to stay

You think because giant, and I and others are Irish that we are automatically prejudiced??

There have been posters who aren’t irish that support the request to have it removed.

But changing it in Talk Guidelines to reflect the fact some people find it problematic doesn’t cross that line for me

So you're ok with posters using it, just not mumsnet itself, and you're not offended when others use it? You won't report it, you don't find it racist?

'. Which means then they need to ban its usage, as they see it as a racist term. And they need to police the forum accordingly. '

Heaven forbid MN should be obliged to police the forum for racism.

Giantbanger
Irish posters, American posters, French posters, Spanish posters, Polish posters, Islamic posters, male posters, old posters, young posters.
Take your pick.
Everybody gets insulted on MN
If you don't like it, don't post.
I dislike many of the insinuations about non EU economic migrants (I spot them because I am one) but I do not demand they be disallowed.

Good point. Why shouldn't HaitchQ police the forum for discriminatory behaviour against any of the protected characteristics? Isn't that their job? Otherwise, why not just go Reddit-esque and let anything stand.

Talkin you made a personal attack on my character. I haven't done that against anyone. No one. That was really unfair and unjustified.

You are saying that "beyond the pale " is a racist term.
Its not.
Therefore its not covered by the equalities act.
You may not like seeing it, but this a relatively free society and we all see legal stuff we do not like.
There are bigger issues than historic phrases.
Lets focus on those.

You made a personal attack on my character. That is offensive. And was uncalled for and unjustified. I haven't attacked anyone in the personal way that you did to me.

It isn't a historic phrase where I'm from, it is used to cause offence on a regular basis.

Everybody gets insulted on MN

And it gets reported.

If you don't like it, don't post.

Nice.

we all see legal stuff we do not like.

Racism is illegal. Discrimination based on any of the protected characteristics is illegal.

So you're ok with posters using it, just not mumsnet itself, and you're not offended when others use it? You won't report it, you don't find it racist?

Well I’ve expended quite a few posts setting out how the phrase doesn’t have racist origins and there is no documented history of anti-Irish use of the phrase in England so... no.

If MNHQ wishes to be inclusive of and sensitive to its Irish users, they may wish not to use the phrase in guidelines about language use to reflect the fact that the phrase has negative and discriminatory connotations in Ireland.

If i see someone using the phrase on the boards I will report it as having racist undertones, and also point out to the person who has used the phrase that it is offensive to some people. Whether they take that on board or continue to use the phrase is then up to them. I will, however, draw my own conclusions from their decision.

If i see someone using the phrase on the boards I will report it as having racist undertones, and also point out to the person who has used the phrase that it is offensive to some people. Whether they take that on board or continue to use the phrase is then up to them. I will, however, draw my own conclusions from their decision.

Well, you will be being quite disingenuous, won’t you then?

Bournemouth is "beyond the pale"

If MNHQ wishes to be inclusive of and sensitive to its Irish users, they may wish not to use the phrase in guidelines about language use to reflect the fact that the phrase has negative and discriminatory connotations in Ireland.

That's all we want.

That's all we want.

Some seem to want quite a bit more TBH.

*First ‘country’ is a vague term applied in different ways. The CIA World Factbook covers it well: ‘
a wide variety of dependencies, areas of special sovereignty, uninhabited islands, and other entities in addition to the traditional countries or independent states".

Second, the UK Parliament legislates and governs specifically for England (and sometimes for England and Wales) in our distinctive political system, so it’s technically incorrect to say there is no entity that governs for England.* Embarassing the source you cite does not list England as a country and of course i said england has no government i didnt say there was no entity that made certain laws on SOME but not all laws in the us states get to decide on some but not all laws yet they are not countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_entities_and_changes_in_The_World_Factbook

Hold on. Are you actually saying I'm not entitled to draw a conclusion from someone's behaviour towards me on the boards? I'm not allowed to be offended when I ask them not to use a word or phrase because I find it to be racist, and they continue to use it I have to what? Not take notice of the type of person they are by doing that?

Seriously?

I believe the MN phrase is

When someone tells you who they are, listen.

I intend to.

It's not hate-speech. While it certainly may offend, we don't have a legal right to NOT be offended.

There are plenty of things that offend me: porn, smokers in my air space, rude cards in my children's eye line etc, but I have to deal with it and move on in my own way, since no laws are being broken.