To think that if you’re told a phrase is offensive, you don’t insist on using it?

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Yes, a TAAT. The context is that we explained to mumsnet HQ that the phrase ‘beyond the Pale’ is found eyebrow-raising by many (but not all) Irish people.

The Pale was the name given to an area of Ireland under English rule and those outside that area were considered uncivilised aka ‘beyond the pale’. This is a phrase that is only used with raised eyebrows in Ireland and certainly feels inappropriate, if not offensive, coming from an English person.

Mumsnet use it as part of their racism guidelines as in that they only ban language that is ‘beyond the pale’. Mumsnet accept the origins of the phrase. However, they insist on using this phrase to describe whether something is or is not racist.

Given the context, AIBU in requesting that Mumsnet find another phrase in their racism guidelines?

Yes, of course the Internet crosses borders but most websites and social media groups are very much rooted in one country and tend to follow the customs and traditions of that country.

Well U.K. website then.

So why did you say "English"?

So as a Uk website the provisions of UK equality legislation should apply?

And it still looks like the phrase originates from palisade fences. Which must surely predate an area of Ireland called The Pale?

Why did I say English?

Because the owners/founders are from London.

MNHQ is based in London.

Because the owners/founders are from London.

But it's a UK site. It's precisely this kind of thing that gets right on people tits.

Going out of your way to be offended.

You'd think that when it was explained to people that a phrase they thought was offensively anti-Irish doesn't actually have anything to do with Ireland, that their response would be: "Oh, that's good. Now I don't have to be upset and offended anymore when I hear that phrase".

When the response is: "I'm going to be carried on being offended anyway", then you have to question how reasonable that feeling of offence was in the first place.

"I'm going to carry on being offended anyway"

D'oh!

I was in the early bits of this and it’s moved on a lot ! I’ve always thought it was offensive to anyone outside the fence whether that fence be in Calais or Ireland etc.

I would love to keep on using the phrase because I only ever use it in jest, with lady Bracknell tosser type delivery in my head when said. It is always suggesting it’s far better to be beyond the pale than with those inside of it.
I need to read the full thread. Mulling. (If that’s not anti Isle of Mull or spice islands in some way)
Really important not to offend also really important to keep our language vibrant. Mulling . .

So many determined not to see it. It’s sad.

You are wrong.

There isn't bigotry towards Irish people here. English posters on Mumsnet usually trip over themselves to say how wonderful Irish people (and other foreigner) are and how they are are investigating getting Irish citizenship in the wake of Brexit.

There are sometimes threads which reference travellers of Irish descent who live in Britain. These are not necessarily bigoted - they are lived experiences/ I would not want to live next to some of these people and I am sure that some settled Irish people wouldn't either.

I have noticed some bigotry from some Irish people towards English people whether they are living in Ireland or abroad.

and how they are are investigating getting Irish citizenship in the wake of Brexit.

You can’t really think anyone is doing that because of their love of Ireland? They’re doing it for entirely selfish reasons.

And yes there absolutely is Irish sentiment here on MN.

anti Irish sentiment.

There isn't bigotry towards Irish people here.

Bollocks. Yes there is.

I am Irish. I have had sneery anti-Irish comments directed towards me personally on MN and I've witnessed it being directed at other posters and at Irish culture more broadly.

So do you want to gaslight me again and tell me that my experiences didn't happen?

There is definitely bigotry towards Irish people on mumsnet. And you can double that if you are talking about the difficult folk on N Ireland, not the cute and cuddly friendly Irish from South and West of the border.

I agree with treacle

Aww treacle thinks I'm cute and cuddly

I'm going to be dreaming about these threads tonight!

There are many manifestations. Names like Conor and Liam are considered naughty boy names.

I did not know this!
my son Liam was an angel of a child

You'd think that when it was explained to people that a phrase they thought was offensively anti-Irish doesn't actually have anything to do with Ireland, that their response would be: "Oh, that's good. Now I don't have to be upset and offended anymore when I hear that phrase".

You must be new here.

I’ve never thought of Conor and Liam as being ‘naughty boy’ names.

If people have never before heard that a certain phrase is offensive then they need to be cut some slack, but if they have been told, then why would they continue to say it?

Just to add, as I've been thinking about this, I have often people using The Pale, and its inhabitants as an offensive comment so it works both ways!