To think flying off on holidays is immoral?

[RedTriangle]

Anyone planning to fly off on holidays?

“Every round-trip ticket on flights from New York to London, keep in mind, costs the Arctic three more square meters of ice”
nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

I live near an airport and there is a steady stream of planes landing and taking off. It feels ominous now in light of the recent WWF report talking about life on earth being wiped out.

There are posts on mumsnet on the section about long haul travel where people are talking about flying off with their families to Thailand or Mexico etc not thinking or not caring about the impact! Future generations won’t be jetting off and living lives like this as we will have destroyed the planet and they will be scrambling to survive.

My parents have booked a weekend in Spain! They regularly do this and they will be long gone while future people pay a terrible price.

I think we can make individual choices but ultimately there needs to be a global effort.

For example, rail fares will go up by about 3% in January, yet fuel duty is left untouched. Trains are less environmentally damaging than cars.

Years ago I worked for a company that gave you a contribution towards your rail/bus season ticket or a car park season ticket. The rail ticket would be taxed because it was cash, the car park ticket wasn't, I'm not sure why it was exempt. That is a nonsense.

Governments and councils operate a car-centric policy instead of investing in public transport and cycle networks.

We need plastic for so many things, but there are many things we could use alternatives. But I am not sure there is quite enough momentum to really change habits.

And as I said right at the outset, it's industry that needs to get its house in order.

Life is immoral. It’s why ancient Jains would starve to death at the age of 50 to atone for the sins of living. Every ant you step on, every bug you accidentally swallow, all added up.

@MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig : you couldn't make it up

I thought you'd like it Here's a couple more for you ...

www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/hypocrite-prince-charles-slammed-for-flying-to-copenhagen-in-jet-with-large-carbon-footprint-20091217-kxzl.html

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-charles-branded-a-serial-hypocrite-after-flying-less-than-70-miles-to-attend-polo-match-10428617.html

To be fair, as a PP said, we all make contradictory decisions sometimes ... but not all of us prate on ad nauseam about what everyone else should be doing

Yep, we all live at the expense of someone or something else.

So I guess, how you choose to live your life does matter. For some, that includes flying all over the world, experiencing other cultures. I get that too.

There’s a difference between flying off to sub Saharan Africa to work with orphaned children and flying off to an AI Caribbean resort where you drink, eat and sunbathe all day. only engaging with locals because they are waiting on you.

There’s nothing immoral about liking nice holidays. We like what we like. And as people have pointed out on here, if people stopped going on holiday that might ruin other people’s livelihoods. There is a balance to be struck.

I do think most people want to do their best to protect the planet at the same time as doing what they enjoy. That doesn’t have to mean no flying at all though, or no holidays ever, so I do disagree with the op there. But I think most people want to put a bit of thought into what they do, precisely because we live at the expense of someone or something else.

The world is not going to revert back to horse and cart, steam trains, no internet, no cars, no airplanes unless there is a war or another catastrophe. Will it be immoral for me to eat a banana ? I've already heard recently that avacadoes are a no go ! Driverless electric cars, who is going to employ all the drivers ?

We are going to tackle the things that are within our control and without which we feel life would be improved anyway. So next year we are going to try No Spend 19.

Aim is to reduce our contribution to consumerism so we will buy food of course and pay bills but all of the "things" will be cut out. Toys, books, make up, non essential clothes, magazines, random household items.

I'm hoping it makes us realise how much unnecessary stuff we get tempted to buy.

Oh cool user. I like the sound of that. Good for your wallet at the very least!

Its a little bit of a cheat because we have already booked and paid for our holiday so we will still be going on that - but otherwise we are on spending lockdown.

Mentioned that to dh and he said “I think I’ve been doing that for the past 16 years” . He is not flashy with the cash-y. In the best possible way.

I’d like to try that, though make up would be my downfall. I don’t buy it often, like really not often. Maybe twice a year. But I do use it at weekends / special occasions. And I’d feel I was cheating if I stocked up in December.

Also, what about second hand books? Are you cutting those out too?

Books will all be from the library or else using the library ebook service (both of which are excellent). DSs also have access to a very well stocked school library.

I wear a lot of make up but I also buy stuff when I don't really need it and so I will be able to go for a good while with what I already have. I have some stuff dating back decades!

Oh yes! We have a good library actually which I only use for dcs. I should start using it for myself too.

Our library ebook service also has all of the latest magazines and so these will all be available too. Audiobooks also free.

I’ve been on my B team make up for months now, (you know, all the ‘free gift’ minis and old crap). Even that has all now run out. Completely run out.

I think lush do slightly more ethical make up... Maybe I could buy some of that at Christmas and try not to buy any more next year.

What toiletries are you going to allow?

Basic toiletries only once what we have is used up: toothpaste/brushes, shampoo/conditioner, deodorant and soap.

Stuff like hair serum and oils, posh hair treatment masks etc, perfume, body lotions will all be out. Basically all the stuff that you don't really need but get duped into buying.

Its more the mass consumerism that I am trying to fight against and less about being completely eco friendly (although we are at the same time reducing single use plastics).

Next best actions are selling your car, avoiding flights and going vegetarian.

Just avoiding flying isn’t going to help. All taxpayers subsidy the aviation industry. We need a fair tax system, which means taxing aviation fuel.

At the moment I’m helping someone’s family fly to Orlando when it’s my choice to avoid flights as far as possible.

I agree we could all help a lot by not over-shopping. No food waste, no excess toiletries, cleaning products and cosmetics, no one-season fashion items or cheap plastic tat. No magazines you rarely read or books you never open.

Yes mass consumerism is bonkers! like a cult - 'You shall be forever happy, safe, free, accepted blah blah blah if you buy this here vital thing/experience. Looking at stuff I've bought (flights/holidays/mini breaks included!)and the reasons for buying, I have to choose to laugh and learn rather than cry.

So human to be curious, to want to travel and explore, to meet with friends and family, to experience new things. Doesn't feel right to call another person immoral or even unethical - who am I to judge? We are all part of this, there's no way to be perfect.

Honestly though, I'd often travel because it was my reward/escape from the hard work of life at home, or because it's just what you do, or because it would make other people happy, or impress some nameless person!

Not very kind really. And not the blueprint I wanted to share with Ds.
We slowed down, stopped, simplified, tried new things. It's better! No martyrdom here. And we've a way to go yet.

OP you make your choices re how to act responsibly and I'll make mine.

Thank you op for getting me thinking about what I'm doing and how I communicate that. I get the anxiety! great you're thinking of actions to take.
bats , yes about extremism and negativity!
faery thank you for nice comment yesterday and sensible, civil posts.

Nothing brings out the worst in people like someone trying to do the right thing.

Oh, I believe I'm doing the right thing by enjoying my life to the max and not condemning how others live theirs. Live and let live!

(completes order for teenagers' Christmas PJs and our Christmas bedding)

Great you’re enjoying your life to the max but future people won’t be able to because of how we are living now.

We don't know what the future holds for sure, Red.

Of course YABU, don’t you know it’s more fashionable to criticize people for having children so we can become a nation of DINK vegan nihilists?

Aw thanks falseeconomy! I enjoyed your post yesterday too.

I agree it’s so important to live the best way we can donttalk, but for lots of people, that means protecting what we can of the planet. I’m definitely not martyring myself and I doubt that all teenagers would even want themed pjs for Christmas. Many teenagers I know would be horrified tbh, unless they needed them anyway and were going to get a lot of wear out of them. Many teenagers care deeply about consumerism and the environment. Didn’t more young people watch blue planet 2 than watched the final of X factor last year?

It doesn’t mean I’m having a less enjoyable life, or providing a less enjoyable life for my children, because I don’t want to go on beach holidays or buy Christmas bedding 🤷‍♀️. I get wanting to enjoy as much of the planet as we can, but to me, that doesn’t really include special Christmas bedding. For me at least.

Really interesting post from false (again). I know exactly what you mean about thinking “why did I really buy all that stuff and go on all those holidays”? When I think about it, it wasn’t in pursuit of my own happiness at all. Such a good point.