To think flying off on holidays is immoral?

[RedTriangle]

Anyone planning to fly off on holidays?

“Every round-trip ticket on flights from New York to London, keep in mind, costs the Arctic three more square meters of ice”
nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

I live near an airport and there is a steady stream of planes landing and taking off. It feels ominous now in light of the recent WWF report talking about life on earth being wiped out.

There are posts on mumsnet on the section about long haul travel where people are talking about flying off with their families to Thailand or Mexico etc not thinking or not caring about the impact! Future generations won’t be jetting off and living lives like this as we will have destroyed the planet and they will be scrambling to survive.

My parents have booked a weekend in Spain! They regularly do this and they will be long gone while future people pay a terrible price.

As I don't have children, I'm going to continue to enjoy meat and foreign holidays.

I am with you OP.

I last flew overseas 14 years ago. There is so much I would love to do, see the birdlife in central america, the northern lights, but I have made a commitment for life that I will never fly again. Likewise, I will limit my car usage so that I feel uncomfortable sometimes.

I went to Sainsbury's this morning and noticed how every single type of melon is grown in Brazil. A country that is now out of control politically and environmentally. I will check labels more closely and any fruit and veg not grown in europe I will leave on the shelf. Next year we are going to grow as much as we can ourselves.

Life is going to get tougher but it has to.

OP YANBU. This is really big, we are killing the planet and ourselves with our consumption, flying, etc and hardly anyone gives a shit they just get defensive or accuse the OP of judging them.
The living planet report came out the other day saying we have killed 60% of wildlife since the 70s. It should be headline news, instead it gets 5 minutes and is then forgotten about the next day. Our lifestyles need to change and that includes not flying, our whole way of life needs to change but no one is prepared to do it. It's so depressing.
And by the way, I don't drive, haven't flown in years, don't have children or pets, I eat seasonally, buy local, recycle, reuse and mend stuff and there's still loads more I should be doing but at least I'm trying.

I know someone who works for a company trying to raise awareness of climate change. They have people all over the world and fly them all to one country for meetings where they also partake in a bit of a jolly. I cannot for the life of me see how this isn’t a huge contradiction.

OP I just want to echo what some other posters have said about seeing your GP for help with anxiety. It's definitely understandable and not irrational per se to have these fears, I share them and I know many others do too. It's hard when everyone's lives and expectations are so bound up with unsustainable luxuries, because you feel so helpless as an individual to make much difference. But not everyone is so completely doom and gloom about the future, I believe there will be problems but that we will find the solutions as we have done in the past.
What I'm trying to say really is that you're not wrong to be anxious but you should still seek help because regardless of the cause this level of anxiety is non-typical and really not helpful or healthy for you. You're not to blame for the way things are and you shouldn't carry the burden of it like this 

OP, you are right but everyone feels very defensive, hence you will be crticised for many imagined environmental crimes
years ago I went on a course about carbon/climate change and they were very clear that flying was the single most damaging thing any of us could easily change in order to reduce our carbon use. IIRC they said that if a person continued to fly several times a year then any amount of recycling/insulating/veg eating was just a waste of time.

I have flown very rarely since then and only when other options are not feasible and only when I'm convinced there is some serious benefit that isn't just my own entertainment.
The thing is I can remember when flying was an unheard of luxury- it was the talk of my primary school when a class mate went to Spain on holiday. I don't remember feeing particularly hard done by and while travel is certainly enjoyable, I don't see much evidence for it broadening the minds of the population, or maing us more internationally minded.

If we all had a carbon allowance we could then decide whether we valued air travel more than eating meat. Or having children.

Here you go, MsAdorabelle ... you'll like this

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6736517/Copenhagen-climate-summit-1200-limos-140-private-planes-and-caviar-wedges.html

'how bad are bananas' as mentioned by pp, very good, it gives you a feel for what are the most useful ways to address your carbon footprint

Puzzledandpissedoff you couldn’t make it up.

Your username is spot on.

Perhaps holidays in this country need to be cheaper to encourage people not to fly. I looked at 2 weeks in Cornwall in May and found a cottage for £1700. I can go to Florida for that and Europe for less.

(Before anyone points it out, I know it would be possible to find somewhere cheaper, this is purely an example of somewhere I actually wanted to go)

The thing is very few people are completely effective when it comes to the environment. Having more than 2 children for example or eating meat. But people pick on the obvious thing which is flying. I will still fly but I do try to make changes in other areas of my life.

Deadbudgie is spot on our whole lifestyle/ outlook has to change but our economic system of capitalism relies on us consuming and aspiring. Trips abroad used to be rare, now it’s usual to fly a few times a year for leisure Christ some people commute by plane. Several friends of ours have jobs where they fly weekly it’s not unusual.

There needs to be a massive change in outlook. Technology used so video conferencing not physical meetings, ration meat, ration flights, end cheap fashion.

I am sickened by packaging why can we not all have refillables for shampoo, porridge oats etc? It would just be normal to take yr containers to your weekly shop it’s not unreasonable.

But people pick on the obvious thing which is flying.

But if flying is the obvious thing and a bog contributor to global warmin then why not start there?

Tax aviation fuel for starters.

Cloth nappy using, cycling, mooncup,minimal meat eating, stopped at 2, soap not shower gel etc. But love my travel will be so sad to stop.

YANBU, OP. And everyone knows it, really. But the cognitive dissonance of knowing one thing to be true, yet experiencing a strong urge to act against it is causing people to come out in defense instead of connecting with their own sense of hopelessness and worry. The posters trying to medicalise your concern, suggesting you go to the GO and 'fix' it can fuck off are missing the point. Your anxiety is a call to action, a natural and healthy response to a global tragedy.
I am always surprised at how people put their lifestyle choices above environmental concerns. Especially if they have kids.



Rationing flights would be good. I don’t fly often so I could sell my ration to someone else. I do think higher taxes in fuel for planes would be good. On a more local level I would like to see much better public transport. I would love to give up my car and get the train to work but it’s 30 mins drive compared to a 2 hour train commute.

We need politicians to act as if there is a war so we are forced to pull together blitz spirit style and all turn this battleship round. If no one flies abroad frequently or eats strawberries in December it will become normal not to.

But love my travel will be so sad to stop.

So why stop? Life is short, live it to the max. There are no gold metals for martyrdom.

It’s not just about higher taxes, nottaking

Aviation fuel is exempt from any tax on n the UK. It means that those who choose not to fly, or cannot fly are subsidising those who do.

So I might be recycling and walking to the shops, but that means fuck all because at the same time paying with my taxes for those who do.

We need politicians to act as if there is a war so we are forced to pull together blitz spirit style and all turn this battleship round. If no one flies abroad frequently or eats strawberries in December it will become normal not to.

Get real. No one is going to punt for that. Life is not a battleship and this isn't 1941. There was a lot of trouble and strife during the Blitz, too. People aren't going to stop flying abroad until fuel runs out and no one's going to put a stop to that.

*I don't need to defend them. I am happy with my choice to continue to go on long haul flights as long as I can continue to afford them. I drive a car and eat meat because I want to. I make choices all the time to do things just as others do.

The only objection I have is to hear people like the OP judge others because they have decided that because they will not do things the rest of us that don't share her anxieties are doing something 'immoral'.*

Same.

The thing is flying for most people isn't actually a necessity and would be very easy to give up.
It's not like food which has to be eaten and not everyone can afford a organic vegan local sourced diet. Or vehicle's to get to work.
Children who can't exactly be returned to sender.
How many of the flyers from this thread were bemoaning plastic Halloween tat on then other thread? Bit hypocritical.

I do think that if people started to refuse to fly on the basis of the environmental cost. Air travel companies would be forced to make a move to cleaner fuel source sooner in order to stay in business.

How many of the flyers from this thread were bemoaning plastic Halloween tat on then other thread? Bit hypocritical.

Why not do your own research and find out rather than label people hypocrites when that may not be so?

If you don't want to fly, then don't. Others don't agree. Hey ho.