To think flying off on holidays is immoral?

[RedTriangle]

Anyone planning to fly off on holidays?

“Every round-trip ticket on flights from New York to London, keep in mind, costs the Arctic three more square meters of ice”
nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

I live near an airport and there is a steady stream of planes landing and taking off. It feels ominous now in light of the recent WWF report talking about life on earth being wiped out.

There are posts on mumsnet on the section about long haul travel where people are talking about flying off with their families to Thailand or Mexico etc not thinking or not caring about the impact! Future generations won’t be jetting off and living lives like this as we will have destroyed the planet and they will be scrambling to survive.

My parents have booked a weekend in Spain! They regularly do this and they will be long gone while future people pay a terrible price.

The best way to cut down your carbon footprint is to not have children

Oh thanks strowman. Nobody has ever said that on here before 😂.

People can justify or make excuses all we want, but until we do feel guilt then people won't change.

The government needs to start taxing airplane fuel and to stop encouraging the industry by sinking billions of taxpayers money into vanity projects like Heathrow3.

Also cancel the cheque.

Holidays abroad would be one of the more easy things to cut out. We don’t need to fly off to Cape Town or Rio even though it would be lovely to do so. I’m talking about travel purely for leisure.

I think I am going to start making more vegetarian meals for my family and joining in beach clean ups. I’ll try to make a tiny, tiny difference but it will be insignificant really.

OP, your fears are real and I share them, frequently at 3am. Thank you for being honest enough to say them. I worry about the environment all the time but it's so hard to step out of 'normal' society.
But then when I was growing up it was normal to smoke in public places, to drink and drive, and to use leaded petrol. Rape in marriage and caning in schools were legal, foxhunting was a status symbol. Men were normally paid more than women and being gay was barely legal.
Normal can change.

The ad at the top is for flights from London to Paris
Actually one of the few places I'd get the train to over a flight.
Because Eurostar is cheap, efficient and easy.

Amen mayhem. Oh! That rhymed.

You never know! We could make some significant enough changes to make the world habitable a bit longer and hopefully not a complete wreck for whatever inherits it from us.

I know there were many, many bad times to have children throughout history but I can’t believe I had mine just as we are about to be wipes out. Its like a nightmare but we won’t wake up from it.

DH thinks I’m a bit unhinged to worry so mucg about this so I try to limit how much I talk about it in real life.

I know some people say talk to your GP if you are so anxious but i feel like I am justified in being anxious - and its more odd not to be anxious!

I think it is hilarious the way people defend their own luxuries. The ‘educational’ value of long haul is the best I have heard yet, as if staying in a luxury resort in Phuket is accumulating knowledge of Thai culture.

I think people should do their own bit, if they want to, and not judge others. Where it grates is being lectured on recycling or eating meat when the person lecturing regularly flies long haul on holiday.

Well, I mean, yes it’s natural to feel anxious about it, but not if it’s really encroaching on your life.

There is no point in worrying about the things you have no control over. You cannot single handedly stop climate change and tbh, much as it isn’t an excuse to do nothing, you will most likely be dead, and probably so will your dcs, by the time the worst effects are felt. Sorry if that isn’t reassuring! It is meant to be, I swear. I think your plan to do something positive, like beach clean ups etc is a good one.

You don’t know what the future holds. We have a good idea of what will happen to the planet but don’t know exactly. There is no point in speculating too much about it.

We’re not about to be wiped out.
I’ll continue my yearly flights abroad until I’m in my dotage and will enjoy and look forward to them with gusto. We’re off to Florida next year, I can’t bloody wait.
There are far more immoral things happening in the world.

I think it is hilarious the way people defend their own luxuries

I don't need to defend them. I am happy with my choice to continue to go on long haul flights as long as I can continue to afford them. I drive a car and eat meat because I want to. I make choices all the time to do things just as others do.

The only objection I have is to hear people like the OP judge others because they have decided that because they will not do things the rest of us that don't share her anxieties are doing something 'immoral'.

How old are you now Maddie?

YABU unless you have no (biological) children, have no car and only eat locally-produced vegan food.

You're not unreasonable to to think that - luckily our opinions are our own. I agree with you that flying is immoral (clearly in a minority on here!) though I still do it. It's a tough call to always make moral decisions & the works need more people who are willing to make sacrifices or the benefit of others. There are other ways you can help reduce your carbon impact - eating less meat & dairy, offsetting emissions when flying, not driving, insulating your loft etc etc..
I wish there was more activity on Mumsnet around sustainable living but can't see much at the moment. Rather than judging others (& therefore being a complete hypocrite) I try to do good through my work (I work in a related field) & set a good example whenever I can!

I just see pollution and destruction instead of happiness

Then can I recommend reading some of the more balanced research on the subject, instead of hyperbolic nonsense from the kind of extremist organisation you linked at 17.09?

Even then it's not entirely safe. A PP said, "only a fool accepts that scientists are acting impartially in research", and I'd add that, when lavish funding is provided for "climate studies", it will attract some downright charlatans as well as the sincere

I see your point but as a pp said, the real issue lies with industry and certain countries' governments who don't want to take any responsibility for the planet (looking at you Trump & Bolsonaro).

Rampant throwaway consumerism is worse.

Rampant throwaway consumerism is worse.

Is it? On what basis?

It's certainly the topic du jour on Aibu though.

On what basis? Oh, nothing really, just a throwaway remark.

Billions of tonnes of plastic waste, or maybe destroying thousands of square miles of virgin rainforest habitat to cultivate palm oil and aloe vera? Or our obsession with out-of-season fruit and vegetables. Why do we need to import green beans into the UK from Guatemala, for instance, or strawberries from Egypt?

Well I'm happy to be immoral then. I love holidays and will continue to go on them, and I don't feel the need to justify it either to be honest.

I only have one child and I don't own a car, I have never owned a car. That's my contribution.

You better be vegan or you're massive hypocrite.

My team has been short staffed all year due to illness, holiday, long term sickness etc I've worked overtime and changed my shifts at very short notice to help provide cover. From my personal point of view it is immoral of you to try to tell me how to spend my hard earned money. I am normally generous and will sometimes tip the local people for their good services. Some countries that I choose to visit have no benefit system. I also do my bit in my country with recycling, charity, growing veg, supporting local projects, a long list of other things. Lots of foreign countries don't have recycling systems in place. When people stopped traveling to Egypt and Tunisia , who paid the wages of all the people who worked in the tourist industry ? When the ash cloud and bank crash occurred in Iceland who paid the wages of the people ? You may think something is immoral, but someone else may believe something else. Why are you trying to impose your beliefs onto other people ?

You’re right op. But the trouble is people’s way of life is basically revolving round things that are killing our planet! Cheap throw away clothes (primark et al) filling landfill after a few wears, people not prepared to wear jumpers in their house swearing blind they would die if the temp went under 21degrees. Constantly refurbishing their home to keep up with the latest fashion. Living away from where they work, houses being built in the middle of no where with no transport or local amenities. Buying food shipped in out of season from other continents. Yes
Flying to Mexico rather than getting the train to Bournemouth, the constant buying and replacing of goods rather than mending them. People need to fundamentally change their lives to save this planet. 99% of office
Work could be
Done
Wfh. Cutting down so much waste associated with commuting and running massive offices.