SIBU - telling a mother how to feed her baby

[IABURQO]

What relation is the baby to you

Dropping a milk feed doesn’t seem a good idea, though I think you sound a bit odd.

The HVs are advising the mother, yet you don’t say what this advice is or how much regard the mother gives it. So I guess you don’t know?

Avocado on “not tasty” bread sounds fine to me? Not everyone lives on organic seeded stuff, and if baby’s having trouble gaining weight then the last thing she needs is diarrhea from too much fibre?

I weaned my kids on all sorts, including plain pasta with vegetables and plain weetabix mashed in full fat milk - not my bag, but weaning babies seem happy enough with such things.

Most babies lose a little weight or weight stops shooting up when they get mobile. Never heard a baby say nee. Apart from when doing head shoulders knees and toes.

The mother is clearly engaging with health professionals. The baby is not going to get dangerously unwell as his weight is being monitored. I’d file this under “difference of opinion” and get on with your own life.

I’m guessing you are grandma. Avocado is high in fat, why on earth would she add lemon juice and pepper at that age? Pastries and sweet muffins are NOT a great food for infants at all, they contain too much sugar and often bad fats, depending on the source.
The fact that the baby woofs a food down does not mean it is a good food, we evolved in an environment in which high sugar or fat foods were incredibly rare or required a high calorie expenditure to procure (hunting in the case of fats) sweetness is associated with ripeness, there are good evolutionary reasons for us to crave or enjoy sweet, fatty foods that now no longer pertain given sugars and fats are among the cheapest and most readily available ingredients.
Unless there are other red flags, like the mother having an eating disorder or dodging HCPs involved with her daughter, I’d leave them to it.
I don’t understand why milk is being reduced, have you neutrally asked why?

Thanks @Batteriesallgone, seems like even that is a bit far for some, I think I will stick to recipe suggestions building on the "more fat" advice though.

@Giantbanger - not a relation.

@LuvSmallDogs - I can't say that I do know, no. What I see doesn't match up to what the mother told me but others seem to think cucumbers and rice cakes are ok in this situation, so .

@LightDrizzle - there is no more salt in homemade pastry than in any bread and definitely there is no need to add sugar for a baby. Pinwheel pastries are a good way to get fat for babies, which they need. She just said the baby didn't need the milk. Maybe I'll try asking if she will add a milk feed to help, see what she says.

I’ve clicked that you probably can’t be grandma, as you have a baby of your own, if you rarely see this baby, I’m not sure how you know so much about their diet and routines. If she asks advice, give her ideas for higher good fat and carb foods, but try to keep your angst out if it.

I'd imagine premade guacamole and ciabatta have added salt which isn't advised to give young babies.

This. Some ciabatta can be high in sodium. Any packaged guacamole would also be high in sodium, well higher than you would want to give an infant/toddler/young child. Obviously homemade is fine.

The problem is we only have one side of a story here. For all we know the woman may well be sitting there fuming on the inside that someone is feeding her kid ‘tasty’ stuff with a high sodium content. Hint, anything pre-made/packaged and ‘tasty’ including breads will either be packed with sodium or sugar, it’s what makes them ‘tasty’ and is why kids eat bland foods because foods naturally low in sodium, with no added salt and no added sugars are generally bland but it’s what kids eat as it’s healthy.

A We can't judge from you what you say as to whether Mum lacks knowledge or motivation. She may be suffering from PND. She may be doing everything she can, taking advice and still baby is in a phase of activity being higher than calories. Activity including growth.

So all could be a little worrying for all at the minute but okay...... but...

Are you sure HV's are advising and actively involved? If not you might want to give them a quick call. They won't give you details but if they aren't involved they should do a check.

It would sadly take me too long to list the names of all the children who have suffered after people who were worried decided to worry more about interfering than protecting the child.

In practical terms if you know her well enough could you make some dishes so she gets a break but follow her rules re spices etc.

If you really need to do something then Focus on encouraging her to up the milk intake and stop fussing over how nice the bread or topping is.

Dropping milk seems to be the real issue here,not wether the avocado is seasoned or not.

OP - if you seriously think that the baby is being neglected or harmed by under-feeding, then you must report it to SS who will look into it.
If it's simply that the mother is not doing thing the way you do, then butt out.
As pp have said, your own ideas of what is nutritious, raise an eyebrow here.

I was clear that the food is homemade without salt (or minimal in the case of pastry or bread) nor sugar nor honey. I'm not sure why some posters are ignoring that.

@NWQM - activity was raised by another poster and it's a good point that it is probably a "problem" in this case, obviously it's good but then the baby needs a lot more food. That gives me a more sensitive angle for the conversation about milk ("do you find the baby needs a lot more milk now they're moving around?" question that might prompt thoughts), so thank you.
I don't think I can randomly make food except when we're meeting, she would find that weird. I'll just try to stay tactful.
The HV is definitely involved, yes.

Is the baby actually at risk or just skinny? Both of my children were skinny at one point (my youngest has always looked skinny for his age) despite no restrictions on food and breastmilk on demand. Some children are just like that. But if the child is dangerously skinny then I think that you should tell her that it is ok to give him typically ‘unhealthy’ food like pastries or whatever so long as he eats. If the child is starving then she needs to get him used to eating and work on healthy eating habits later.

that her baby wouldn't eat much (yet really liked guacamole on ciabatta another time). Is this for real??

My take on the whole thing is what is your relationship to the baby OP? If health visitors are monitoring then they will call in social services if there is a significant problem. Back off unless you are a relative.

If you have genuine concerns seek professional advice. Call the relevant HV team. If nothing happens as a result of that, call children's services.

The 'oh in this house we only have half a rice cake and a handful of seeds every three days modern life is so unhealthy and everyone is so fat' fetishisation of food restriction, with its links to class identity, will lead to children being hungry and malnourished. But hey, as long as you're not one of those skanks letting your baby have something processed or high in fat or containing sugar, it's all good, right? Starving has to be better than obesity!

People who have advised me to do any form of controlled crying over the years have had one polite "I don't support that, please don't talk to me about it" response, and if they have ignored that have been told to fuck off. That usually works.

Also my friend - who is very highly educated - hadn’t realised that milk is more calorific than most foods. So she was trying to drop the milk (not sure why exactly but she was) in favour of food. I made some comment about how babies love milk because it’s so high in fat and sugar and low effort to digest, you can see why really, why increase your body’s workload when you are already working hard crawling and growing etc.

She has been a dieter all her adult life and I think had quite a diet-focused approach to food. She hadn’t really thought about the fact that healthy for a baby looks vastly different to healthy for an adult.

There are some good NHS feeding advice sheets being produced on this now, explicit about babies needing fat etc. I don’t think it’s an uncommon problem sadly (come across it before in Mum groups but I often don’t know Mum well enough to say anything).

IABURQO if you’re bringing over homemade ciabatta and guacamole and also have this much time to be so involved over someone else’s baby, please share your time management secrets.

I don’t believe every muffin, pastry, and bread you’ve given a child you don’t see much is homemade and sugar/salt free.
Sorry.

Rice cakes are fine for a baby that is of an okay weight, but not an underweight baby that has HV involvement. People think what is a healthy diet for adults is a healthy diet for under fives. This is wrong. Babies and toddlers have tiny tummies and need higher calorie food than adults.

You lost me when you said avocado on bread was a nasty plain food, and crackers are wrong as a snack. You sound incredibly judgemental.

Nothing wrong with avocado on bread. I eat it myself.

There are better ways to get calories into someone than relying on pastries whether homemade or bought. The avocado for example that you seem to despise even though its unseasoned is far better than the pastry options. A growing baby needs variety, not loaded up on carbs.

Controlled crying. Some belief in it. Others don't. Either way, you cannot judge someone negatively either way. Some do it out of pure desperation in hope that the child will sleep which will also allow the parent to sleep.

What actually has it to do with you?

If you aren't a relative, and you hardly see the child, what's it got to do with you?

The mother has advice from the HV, why do you think she needs more from you?

I thought food is for fun until they’re one?!

Babies should be getting most of their nutrition from milk, and exploring tastes.

I certainly didn’t fatten my children up with pastries! Though they did have the odd bag of chocolate buttons.....

Children under 1 definitley shouldn’t have milk feeds swapped for water, but I imagine that’s what the health visitor is focusing on. There’s lots of cultural pressure to have a baby ‘sleeping through’, and I’ve heard people advising mums to swap night feeds for water before. Is the Mum going back to work soon and desperate for the baby to sleep through?

Obviously she needs to be told not to give water feeds (by the health visitor) but there’s nothing at all wrong with the food you’ve described

Food for food until they are one is a pernicious myth.

It’s all over the internet for some reason but it’s wrong. Ask any HV.

Pepper on a one year old' s food?Lemon juice? That's not something you give one year old's routinely! .children at that age ( or any) are not meant to have loads of saturated fat.
Pancake- fried not good!
Lasagne- full of cheese fat. meat fat
Muffins... what are these English muffins? Or cake muffins?

I don't think you have the facts right. How do you know she 'is shouting for fatty carbs'? You don't.

I think you need to appraise yourself of the facts of nutrition for babies.