To believe that trans is not a mental health condition

[Babykoala1]

Preparing to get flamed of course and expecting feminists to come out in full fource. Just as the title suggests, I do not believe that trans is a mental health condition as much as homosexuality or even intersex would be considered a mental health condition. I'm sure here on Mumsnet I am in the minority and I will be absolutely flamed for having the audacity to compare it to homosexuality. But really? Why is homosexuality accepted as a part of biology yet trans can be automatically discarded as a mental health issue?

I'll get my coat

Categd Yes, they are mental health issues, usually caused by trauma in childhood or abandonment (parent walking out on them) and it is a way of coping. In rare cases, someone can become a sociopath from a brain injury.

There have been cases where people from "Loving homes" have prsented as anti social PD. But very often the "my child is a sociopath" stories are told from parents' perspectives and if the parent has causedwittingly or unwittingly some kind of trauma to their kids (verbal abuse or being violent with a spouse in front of their kid mother has PND so doesn't bond with child, mother is cold toward child etc)they may not realise or admit they have, (a lot of parents think if they not beating the crap out of their child then they are not abusive) so there is some doubt about this.

Apologies for the derail, OP.

I were to say that gay people were delusional I'm sure MNHQ would come in and have it swiftly deleted

Trans and homosexuals are not comparable, why do you keep doing it? Gay people don’t require hormones and surgery etc, how on earth can you think they are the same?!

threat/risk of suicide is another paralell with BPD too, to add to autumnleaves comment.

As UpstartCrow seems to be saying (correct me if am wrong), TRAs cannot have it both ways. They are either sick and need/deserve treatment or they are well and need to stop emotionally blackmailing women into giving them (or sharing) their safe spaces.

Doctors and trans people would disagree with you

Ok nobody is saying trans is the same as homosexuality. It's highlighting the differences between the way society treats the two. For example, if I were to say that gay people were delusional I'm sure MNHQ would come in and have it swiftly deleted...

Yes, society treats them differently because they are different.

What is it you would say gay people are delusional about anyway? When have gay people ever required other people to lie about what they actually are as part of their 'being gay'?

There are lots of trans people (mainly old school transsexuals) who would disagree that being trans isn't a mental illness (or condition as some call it). India Willoughby refers to their gender dysphoria quite a lot.

Ok, explain please how someone can be born in the wrong body. What is the wrong body?

You are using Trans as a term to mean one thing, when in reality it means lots of different things.

Trans when meaning gender dysmorphia is very different to trans meaning a cross dressing fetish.

But I think that's not new information.

Surely anyone who's read anything further than my (perhaps misleading) title will understand I'm not necessarily disputing the fact it presents itself as a mental disorder but that it could also be down to genetics and if other such "mental issues" are attributed to a physiological cause why is it so outrageous to consider the same for trans? If there is nothing to prove either why does one make more sense than the other?

I don't disagree that there is perhaps a genetic element to some people's feeling as to how closely they conform to stereotypical male/female traits. But the issue has nothing to do with being in the wrong body, it's about feeling obliged to fit societal norms. Because society has decided that if you are a boy who likes dresses and dolls then you must in fact be a girl with a penis instead of a Male person with "feminine" interests. It almost seems easier to pin it on that and make it a "medical" issue as then it's out of your control and there is a reason for how you feel. There is always a reason for how you feel but the problem (if there is one) is not that you have the wrong body.

If there is nothing to prove either why does one make more sense than the other?

Because there’s nothing observably physically unhealthy about the body.

The analogy which has been used before is that of an eating disorder. If someone comes to the gp saying “my body’s too fat” we don’t just agree and give them liposuction. We look to see if they are actually right or if the problem is in the mind.

^accidentally wrote the above sounding like I’m a gp. I’m not!

It also fits in with homosexuality as it also seems that people would rather say that they are boy in a girl's body in order to explain why they are attracted to other girls than actually be female and attracted to other females and also not be particularly feminine.

Some people who identify as trans may have BDD, perhaps for some it is only due to environmental factors, maybe some people who think they are born in the wrong body are actually suffering from some kind of trauma that has manifested itself as some kind of gender dysphoria. I think its complex and modifying one's body should only be a last resort but I do believe that there are some individuals who are predisposed to being trans and that there are physiological factors that would contribute to this

Evidence has suggested that trans individuals may have more brain functionalities in common with those of the sex not assigned at birth than with whom they were

What are the sex-based brain functionalities you refer to here? What functionalities do male brains exhibit that differ from those of females, or vice versa?

Teen DS has a trans friend. However, when this person was a very young boy, even DS at age 4 could tell he was different. Ds would tell me that this boy liked playing with girls and i'd say "but you like playing with girls" and his face would screw up and he'd try to tell me that it was different. I honestly believe there are cases where it's just part of your core identity but I also think that there are a lot of cases where puberty kicks in and feelings change. Is it hormonal/biological/genetic/a mental condition/a combination of these? Who knows and i'd be interested in the results of proper studies.

However I also feel that there is almost a fashionable thing about it now and it's a substitute for being gay, or more or less feminine/masculine than society believes you should be.

Now, I remember when there was all the stooshy about Caster semenya and she was genetically tested and she possibly fits in the intersex area, but surely if all the people who believe they have the wrong body were tested, they would be shown in the main to be genetically what they are so it can only then be a mental/chemical thing?

It's in the diagnostic manuals DSM and ICD, so yes, it is classed as a mh problem. Homosexuality was once in these manuals too however, as was a much longer list of sexual disorders. It seems likely in the near future gender dysphoria will come out - I suppose the question is, who best to provide initial services if it's not mh? Perhaps something separate will emerge attached to acute health trusts.

I agree that it's not a mh problem in that it's delusional, or fixable with psychiatric treatment.

even DS, at 4, could tell he was different

You see, right there, is why trans cannot be compared to homosexuality. You would never look back and think "well, even at 4, I knew he was gay." Doesn't happen. Because gay has nothing to do with identity but sexual attraction.

WaxOnFeckOff I meant that they feel as though they are in the wrong body. I don''t mean that they really are. Because I do not believe gender is assigned at birth, you are born either male, female or inter.

OP you seem to be saying that because homosexuality was once viewed as a mental disorder and now isn't, that the same should, or will be true for being transgender.

What about other currently classified mental disorders? Will we eventually find out anorexia isn't a mental illness and stop treating it? Depression?

Some things are mental illness (no shame should be associated with that), and will always need treatment.

A homosexual person can live happily without any treatment whatsoever once society became accepting of their preferences.

Many people who are transgender will always require some form of treatment (for their own comfort) - whether that be medical, surgical, psychological, or simply the world colluding with their wish to see reality as different than it is (their sex being what it is, regardless of gender).

at the comparisons to PD. Inclined to think this an opinion only. It makes no sense to me as most PDs can respond to therapy and have associated therapies, e.g.
dialectical behavioural therapy for BPD. I don't know of this for trans?

Can anyone provide a decent source? If you can't please be careful about presenting a 'common sense' opinion as fact

PatriciaBateman anorexia has psyichatric treatments, pharma and therapy. Gender dysphoria does not.

I think there's a fair comparison medically with homosexuality in terms of how society views trans people. 30 years ago similar arguements were made about homosexuals.

How has sexuality got linked to whether you feel you're in the wrong body? Seems like T is about yourself and nothing to do with sexual preferences (LGB).

SerenaOverjoyed I have been through DBT for PD. As far as I know, no such treatment exists for trans/ Gender Dysphoria.

The comparisons of Trans to PD are just speculations and none of us on this thread have presented them as actual facts.

SerenaOverjoyed I do agree that the stigma that many trans people experience is very similar to that LGB people experienced in the past. Well, LG, anyway. Don't know if bisexuality ever had that stigma or not.