To think most parents are, or have been, abusive by the standards of MN

[Oakenbeach]

I’m part of a stable family with two well adjusted children... there’s lots of love and support, and we generally very happy.

However, over the course of our family life there are times when I’ve lost my temper and shouted at the children and after the anger has died down realised I was being unreasonable with my response being disproportionate. Based on MN, I was probably emotionally abusive during these outbursts. I have also smacked my children on the odd occasion - never hard at all and always when they have been violent themselves (in the way a 3-4 year old can get when having a tantrum). According to MN I would be labelled abusive for these parenting fails...

However, don’t most parents have occasions when they have fallen short with their kids and haven’t always been models of parenting perfection? I’m not proud of myself for times I have lost my temper etc. but equally, I really don’t feel I’m in any way out of the ordinary.

I think the term “abusive” is very overused on MN.

However I do think smacking is wrong. I’ve never smacked my kids as to me it signifies a loss of control, lazy parenting and is really hypocritical.

Parenting can be difficult. Children can be difficult. The parent of a perfect child can get high and mighty, but should remember not all children are sweetness and light. Not every parent has hours to discuss appropriate behaviour when rushing out the door to work at 7am.

I did smack my DD on the bottom once when she ran into the road - it was just a reaction rather than a punishment. And I lost my temper once and had to put myself on the naughty step.

@Thisreallyisafarce smacking is actually banned in many European countries, and will most likely be illegal here soon. It is banned in Scotland actually.

And don't give me the "I got smacked when I was a kid and I turned out all right"-crap. You turned out to be a person who thinks it is ok to hit children. this!!!!

Smacking is abuse and it is consider legally so in many places. End of.

Strange how many parents say that is their first reaction when their child runs into the road. Not pulling them back to safety, but smacking their bottom

I don’t get it and I think it’s nonsense. What you mean is you got a fright and took it out on your child.

I don't hit my dog, my friends / coworkers, my husband or my children. This is because doing so is wrong - something we're all taught and something reinforced by law in many cases. I personally can't understand that some people believe the concept that hitting those most precious to them - the weakest and most dependant group - is somehow justified as ok.

I'm sure I've occasionally raised my voice and fairly often been sarcastic (it's a default setting at times) but I've never intentionally harmed my children in anger (verbally or physically) or neglected their needs.

I'm sure MN can be somewhere that pearl-clutchers gather, but physical abuse of any level is a red line for many people.

@Sickoffamilydrama good for you 💙 it sounds like a difficult journey but you must be proud, I understand a bit.

Op, I think you’re right. You sound like a loving mum in a normal family.
I am a single mum in a normal family. When I am tired and my dc is being difficult, I shout occasionally. I am human. Dc is going into a world where people are stressed and will sometimes shout. He needs to know how to deal with it. If I have been unreasonable, I always apologise.
I have slapped my dc once. When he was about 6 he hit me in the face while having a tantrum, catching me in the eye. I hit back, without meaning to. It was a defence reflex and I was as shocked as him. Neither of us has hit the other since.
I don’t worry about the “holier than thou” types. My dc is happy, confident & well balanced. That’s all that matters.

rainbowtrain

No "End of" - this is a comment forum with several opinions being presented. You have yours, I have mine.

I was smacked as a child. Not often but enough to remember those occasions. I turned out ok I guess, but not because I was smacked. I can’t see that it helps a situation or teaches anything other than fear and strength and I was definitely scared of my dad’s anger.

But more than smacking I was scared of his silence. Anger and not speaking were a very damaging factor for me. Shouting would have been a relief in some ways because you can’t react to someone who shuts you out.

So that along with quite a few other things my parents did were things I knew I’d never do.

I suppose though that every generation will look back on their own parents and judge the childhood they had in some way and will think I’d never do x, y or z when I have a family.

I don’t worry about the “holier than thou” types

It’s an awkward attempt at justification when you call people who don’t use physical violence against their children “holier than thou”

I think every human being displays abusive behaviour at one point or another. For some it will be a rare lapse and for others it will be their modus operandi. Whether it’s emotional abuse or physically assaulting another person. Parents aren’t immune to this, and assuming it’s not your default then I don’t think it necessarily makes you an awful person.

I know I was emotionally abusive in my past. And it was wrong. But the key is to learn from it and try not to repeat the same mistakes in future.

I agree with you op, but I don't think people will admit it on here, due to being ripped a new piece by the perfect parent brigade. For the record even raising your voice at dc is considered abusive now.

Smacking is abusive as can be, to a certain extent, some forms of shouting/verbal behaviour. You might have been abusive at some points when parenting. It doesn’t make you necessarily an abusive parent in general as I’m sure other things far outweigh those incidents. However, was hitting your children an abusive parenting method? Yes, absolutely.

@Thisreallyisafarce the issue is that smacking threads always end up like this.
Whoever agrees will never change their minds and admit that it is horrible, and whoever disagrees will never say oh! You have convinced me, it is ok.
And that is the opinion bit.

Then, there is fact, like the fact that it is indeed banned and the multiple studies showing the impact on children and adults. And that is fact that can't be changed by your or my opinion.

I agree Lockheart, I was too, and it was my own failing, me being depressed, not coping with dd who has ASD, learning difficulties, and not knowing what was wrong. Now is a totally different story, I am calmer, dd is under a children with disability social worker, who gives us respite hours, and dd school run courses on dealing with challenging behaviour, and are working on dd behaviour.

Adults do not need to be shouting when angry. If you could control yourself enough to not shout at your boss, for example, your children deserve that same level of respect and control.

To be fair if my boss was hitting, kicking and biting me I'd do more than shout, I might hit back in self defence and I'd definitely call the police. When DS has done it in the past, I did occasionally shout at him to stop.

rainbowtrain

No, the fact is that it is not banned here. You can pretend it is, but it isn't.

If children are doing something dangerous sometimes shouting is the only way to get their attention to stop it quickly. I don’t think that is abusive.

But shouting at children and losing it for every little thing is.

Plus, the banning or not if smacking is irrelevant. My opinion doesn't necessarily change just because the law does. If and when smacking is banned, I won't smack because it would be illegal (but then I don't smack anyway) but I still wouldn't call it abuse.

'I think every human being displays abusive behaviour at one point or another. For some it will be a rare lapse and for others it will be their modus operandi. '

I agree with this. But, specifically on the 'smacking' issue, I think there are boundaries that should not be crossed (and that non-abusive people generally manage to maintain) and I believe 'smacking' is on the other side of such a boundary. It is hitting, and we all (mostly) manage not to hit adults, no matter what provocation we endure. People 'smack' because a) they have lower inhibitions with regard to children, because of (at root) a belief that violence against them matters less, and b) it was recently societally acceptable. It remains wrong, though. (And I can't agree with a PP that 'smacking' on the bottom was a reflex reaction in any shape or form. It's a very specific site which has been the default for physical punishment of children, partly because of the humiliation involved. That's not a reflex). I'm far from perfect. I get impatient with my children, I shout more than I'd like to, I need a break more than I'd like to. But I have never hit any of them, because that, to me, is an absolute boundary.

I agree with the OP that we all have bad moments, abuse is either extreme bad moments or persistent ones. Smacking isn't usually effective discipline and it's often counter-productive but I don't see it as automatically abusive either (though these days it often is part of abuse, because most parents avoid it) Comparing with adult partners makes no sense to me because adult partners (in our society) aren't in a discipline relationship and any kind of discipline, physical or not, is abusive.

sparkle getting physical with an angry dramatic child is not a good idea. It's not the end of the world as a one-off but it sounds as if you are getting sucked in to the drama, so if you feel the need to do something similar within the next few weeks then take a step back and re-think your discipline. One danger is that if you grab and push he will experiment with grabbing and pushing back. Focus on dialling down the drama instead. You punished him, he shouted, so what? Walk away. Ignore. You can accept the feelings and be very "meh" about the fuss.

I have lost my temper with my children, I doubt there is anyone who hasn’t and I have hit DS once. I had a very bad back and was struggling to change his nappy when he kicked me really hard and I reacted. I felt awful about it and still do over 8 years later.
Note my use of the word “hit” - I think smack downplays it.
It’s wrong, it shouldn’t happen and if we won’t tolerate being hit by people we love then we shouldn’t hit people we love ( or anyone else )

It's a very specific site which has been the default for physical punishment of children, partly because of the humiliation involved.

No, that's not the reason. It's by far the safest site! I agree it is humiliating though. (How have I ended up defending smacking? I don't approve of it at all!)

I am sad to say that I shout occasionally...I'm not proud.

Equally shit parenting is permissive though. No boundaries are bad for kids and neither is spoiling them. And as for this endless negotiating with them bullshit...useless!

A firm but fair approach is best but I am only human, as are most people and hardly anyone is a great parent 100% of the time.

continuallychargingmyphone Well you weren't there at the time so I'll ignore your comment.