AIBU? School "Dads Only" evening.

[Thomlin]

AIBU? School "Dads Only" evening.

Yesterday I had some time off work so picked my daughter up from school for the first time this year. I'm a single mum with a useless Ex, so all holidays are usually kept to cover school hols and sick days etc. I have a demanding professional job as an engineer (relevant later!).

She came running out with a letter in her hand half excited/ half worried and said I had to phone dad asap because the school was having a "Dads Only Movie Night" between 6-8pm that night. So of course I call him and he can't make it, has other plans. She's obviously gutted as says she'll be the only one in her class missing out but I said not to worry we will find someone who can go with you and if not I'll take you.

I call my brother but he is working night shift that night so can't attend. My boyfriend of two years is working and wasn't due to come over last night but said he could get there for 6.30pm if needed. I then receive a text from school at 3.50pm saying "All children attending movie night tonight must be accompanied by a MALE ADULT OVER 16 YEARS OF AGE. Thank you". So realise actually I clearly can't go and text my partner saying please can he come.

So they go and have a great night but a few things about the whole event and what my partners said after are annoying me.

• After the movie the kids were sent for food and the Dads had to brainstorm around boards what they or the school could do to be more involved with the school. Great I'm all for this, but I have a few ideas too and would love to be involved in a brainstorm like this! I don't think this is exclusively a Dads thing, I think its a working parents thing. If they did more events between 6pm-8pm I could attend, but they never do so I can't!
• All the dads were asked if anything they did at work could be utilised to help the school, so everyone was asked if they had a trade could they help out? Do the school think only Dads are capable of having trades? My dad is a decorator and I spent every weekend working with him as a teen, I still do homers for people now in my spare time and am highly recommend, but the school seem to only be interested in Dads with trades.
• It kind of annoys me that in this day and age, the school are still perpetuating that Dads still need to be babied into being involved with their own children. Believe me I've been trying to get her Dad to take notice for 8 years, do the school think a movie night is going to fix what I've been unable to for all that time? Also, if he did go, does it not just perpetuate the whole "Disney Dad" thing.. I'm the one who does the homework, the washing, the cooking, the dentists appointments, and he gets to swoop in every second weekend and take her out for treats and now school movie nights and fun events too! (The letter said not to worry if you couldn't make it, they'd be planning more in future).

Anyway... I don't suppose I have verbalised this very well because I can actually understand their point behind it. At the school run there was of course loads of mums and grans there and not as many dads, so they obviously think they need to do something but I'm just not sure this is very fair and bordering a bit on sexism. Would love to hear your thoughts and what (if anything!) you'd advise me to do? My DP said one mum did turn up, I actually wish I had now!

@Eilaianne
surely the analogy to black history month would be like putting on a film event that only people of a particular race could attend i.e. a white family would be refused entry.

No, no it would not be. Go back to school and study analogies again.

Our school would not do this. There's children in care, live with extended family, illness in the family, single parent families and single sex families etc - just no

If school want to promote more engagement with fathers, invite the fathers in. But don't invite the children to a fun event only if they are lucky enough to have a father or close male to bring them.

This ^^ with bells on. Have a dad’s planning/fundraising evening by all means but don’t make the kids’ attendance dependent on whether they have a dad. Really thoughtless.

I feel for the children who don't have a dad or mum in this situation like I didn't. It would have hit home even more of my school had done something like this. I can't see why these events can't be open to all parents or if only one can be either mum or dad/carer/grandparent etc.

OP I agree, my DD's primary school used to run lots of events for mother's during the day (it was assumed all mothers were SAHP which is why they did not offer any wrap around care) and for fathers in the evening. I work full time and could go to neither!

Ironically my job means it would be very beneficial for the school for me to get involved. After the kids did a lesson on their parents occupations, her HT rang asking if I would be interested in talking at a school assembly (after the assembly I had a meeting with the HT and discussed the support I could offer the school).

JingsMahBucket why not take the time to explain your viewpoint rather than post snippy "you're so stoopid" type replies?

To me, the odd comparison between a black history event and this is that it's essentially barring children attending based on an attribute they have no control over (whether they have a dad to attend with them). It's excluding them based on something that isn't their choice and for no real justification (the benefits of potentially getting more dad's involved doesn't outweigh the negative impact of kids without dad's or in same sex parental setups) I realized that's a personal judgement though - the point at which alienating a group of kids outweighs the desire of the school to get more dads inputting...

@Eilaianne the original comparison was regarding white people complaining about black history month, not a black history month event. White people are not barred from celebrating black history month (as long as they're aren't being ironically or straight up racist while doing it).

A better analogy is let's say a veterinarian that holds parties for certain animals, and also want customers to give feedback and express their needs. 90% of the events revolve around dogs. The one time in the last couple of months the vet holds an event that revolves around guinea pigs or cats, the dog owners start complaining about them and their dogs being excluded because they don't own cats or guinea pigs... even though most of the events already revolve around them anyway.

This is issue with being part of what's considered The Default. In school contexts, it's usually mothers, grandmothers or female child minders. In a larger world (especially northern hemisphere) context it's usually white men or white women. Because you're (the general you) the default, any time the attention is not focused on you, you feel like you're missing out or losing a precious opportunity. This is also where cries of "inclusivity" become inverted because that term is usually used by the people who are naturally excluded because they aren't The Default.

Does that help?

JingsMahBucket

I agree

Lots of children don't have positive male role models. They don't have many male teachers.

It's quite well known that makes reading to the class or small groups encourage boys to read.

Children are different around males.

It's a positive thing for so many children and I wouldn't object to men getting involved and making a difference to those children in whatever form it took.

Look at all the 'female' activities available, men don't feel comfortable in those groups and feel excluded, so a group for males shouldn't be encouraged.

Jings No it is not the same at all. My dog doesn't know he is being excluded and so would not be upset.
And the focus is not on mums. It is just that because of patriarchy mums rather than dads end up doing more of the liason with the school. It does not have to be that way though. No one is stopping dads doing that.

But Jings my point is that while I am technically the dog, the vet only holds events that are for dogs with health issues. The vet gets feedback from the dogs with health issues at all these events which I can't go to. So the vet decides he'd like feedback from potential customers who are healthy and since he's so used to seeing sick dogs all the time he asks for healthy cats, because he wants to see how he can get more healthy animals into vet. When do the healthy dogs get to go?

I also don't really agree with the black history month analogy. In this context I'd be talking about the asians, not quite fitting into white society but not allowed to go to events for ethnic minorities living in white society because someone decreed these events are only for black people.

I get this is of my own making though, I could pack in my work and attend coffee mornings til my hearts content. But I don't actually think taking us back to the 1950s is good for society, and actually I think my girls seeing their mum be successful in a "mans world" is more important than being there for the drop offs and pick ups. But I also don't think it should have to be a choice between work OR school and if I'd been invited along I'd have suggested running more things after 6pm so I could be involved, or simple changes like monthly email bulletins for things they'd like help with. People could then offer a weekend or whatever.

Also to the people not quite believing the short notice they have form for this ALL THE TIME. I've been that parent dragging them to 24hr ASDA at 6am to find a yellow sodding Tshirt for some event some numpty dreamed up the night before. This is the school where no parents work and everything is an after thought.

This is issue with being part of what's considered The Default. In school contexts, it's usually mothers, grandmothers or female child minders.

But I'm not part the default! Surely the default is whatever parent is involved with the school.

It also wasn't about males reading more to children or whatever, it was about "do any dads have trades they can put to good use or skills they can volunteer". Like mums don't have skills or trades because we're so busy doing drop offs and pick ups and drinking coffee.

If they'd come out and said they needed males to read because X Y and Z studies had shown it gives these benefits then I wouldn't have a problem they can crack on without me. And hopefully they'd also involve my kid with some of the other dads because hers is an arsehole (and any other families in the same position so they can all have these incredible benefits of being read to by someone with a penis).

Sorry just noticed it was green who made the comment about men reading having specific benefits.

Wonder what kids with only a mum (or two mums) and no males around to read to them do? Do you think they suffer from not having a penis within close proximity whilst being read to?

I would have attended the evening regardless of their text message, and if they tried to tell me to leave they would be on the receiving end of a formal complaint to the Department. Fortunately, this wouldn't happen at my school, because not only do I work there and would be screaming the loudest at staff meetings if they tried to bring it up, but they also realise that not every household is the same and fits traditional patterns.

You do NOT organise school events for students that excludes any of your students from wanting to come if they are allowed or want to.

Midnite I've actually just found the schools twitter account, I'm not on twitter so didn't even know it existed but it's been tweeted to the city council and deemed a huge success with #moretofollow #leadingtheway so it looks like it may well be hashtagging it's way to a school near you soon 😂!!

I actually think I will go to the next one. Just to see if anything gets said.

Very harsh on the kids that don't have a dad.

And I agree with a pp that it seems to be breaking the spirit of the the Equal Ops Act,. Maybe they get away with it because it's on school premises?
It's great to encourage Dads to get more involved, but some thought should have been given to the one in four families headed by a lone parent, the vast majority of whom are women. Obviously this has the potential to cause distress to a large number of children at the school.

YANBU. Dads do not perform a different function to mums, it’s sexist and patronising to assume so. Completely unfair on children who don’t have a dad in their life as well. I would never dream of doing anything like this as a teacher. Either invite all parents or none of them.

I would reply on Twitter that you’re so glad to hear that the dads’ event was such a success and it’s great that they’ve started to do evening events for working parents. And that you’re really looking forwards to the mums’ movie night, you have lots of ideas (but more than 24 hours notice please!) and make sure the council (and the councillor responsible for schools too) get copied in.

They are either going to have to say no mum’s event planned or that it’s during the day or that they’ll do it next year or just not reply - all of which give you a great opportunity to reply and keep copying everyone in to get your point across and something to happen that works for working mums too.

When my dc were in infant school they alternated bring your mum/dad to school every year. First year - they asked for volunteer mums to help run the event so the dads could be with their dc. Second year - during your mum to school. And again asked for mum volunteers. I might have gone in to school and pointed out the error of their ways
To be fair the head did put out a call for dads/others to help and going forward they were better at not seeing just mums as default helpers for everything!

God, some people are really terrible at analogies.
The black history month analogy is nonsense.
The vet analogy is nonsense.

Black people are an oppressed class. Fathers are not an oppressed class FFS.

90% of the school’s events do not revolve around mothers, none of the events are marketed as being for mothers only, none of them are “women’s activities”, they are all just events that are open to all. If more mothers than fathers are involved in those events that’s as much the fathers’ responsibility for not getting involved - they are not victims who are being excluded.

Great idea to encourage fathers to get more involved, bad idea to exclude mothers and other caregivers. Terrible idea to exclude children without fathers.

A dads only evening (or one aimed at fathers mainly) could have a useful purpose, not sure that this one did though.

For example, if in schools with very few male teachers (or none- may be the case in primary schools), the perspective of dads on some of the challenges that are different with young boys may be useful. It has often been difficult to get young boys reading, especially for pleasure, and dad's perspectives may be useful.

It it wasn't a dad's only evening was it?

The OP's boyfriend went, not the child's dad.
She'd asked her brother, again but the child's dad.
The text said any make over the age of 16, not just their dad.

So the argument that some children don't have a dad isn't really relevant unless the school said that only the child's father can attend, which they didn't.

Whilst many people here have their male partners attend school events, this is not the case overall. Schools are still normally seeing mainly women, mainly mums and grandmas, in similar 'open' events. And of those it is normally white British 'English' speaking women in many schools. Not all, and it is gradually changing, but for many schools including those with a wide mix of children it still is. Hence why many schools are trying to come up with ideas to engage with those harder to reach groups. It may be a bit hit and miss at times, and not always work - but at least they are trying to bridge the gap between all the parents.

Why not suggest other alternatives that will engage more people, and that is likely to actually work. Because in many school communities open events don't bring in a mixed range of parents I'm afraid.

Haven't rtft I'm afraid but is it legal to run an event on school premises that excludes an entire group of parents on the basis of their sex?

So the argument that some children don't have a dad isn't really relevant unless the school said that only the child's father can attend, which they didn't.

DS is donor conceived so has no father.
I have no partner.
My father is dead.
I have no brothers.
I have no uncles.
DS does have a godfather but he lives 7 hours flight away.

There is NO male on call that I can send to a 'male only' event at my son's school, nor should I have to beg every male of my acquaintance to attend a school event that has nothing to do with them. My son has a parent who is perfectly able to attend any school function, and I would not be excluded due to my lack of penis.

It's discrimination - personally I would have showed up myself. I'm not a single parent but my dh is often out of town and worked ridiculously long hours when they were small in particular. My nephew is collected by his dad because his mum works full time - they need to have their heads kicked into the 21st century. What about those with 2 mums!

Ps we lived overseas when they were small, luckily a more forward thinking country because they had parent movie night and best of all, once a year parent date night - yes you could drop off at 6pm and pick them up at 10pm!!!! My kids current school sends all communication by email and you can list up to 4 addresses - and starting this year they are having Skype teacher consultations (it's boarding so for a particular reason but would work for working parents too)

I can see both sides of this one. I work for a preschool that needs volunteers to be either on the committee/fundraise/help maintain the building and grounds and we have such a job trying to get parents involved with supporting us. Dads are notoriously difficult to engage. There are some exceptions of course but most of them work full time so they never see us or understand what we're doing with the children so we very rarely get offers of support from them. I understand the school's aim was just to be proactive in trying to get fathers involved and to meet each other and sometimes schools do have to be quite direct to get the support they need.

That said, it was clumsy and it alienated children who don't have fathers. My child's school often have events during the day when lots of parents are working and it's very sad to see children looking upset be cause their parent isn't there. They also have lots of days where the children have to wear something special or bring something in and it's a lot of pressure on parents who can't afford it, myself included.

I think we need to understand that schools need to reach out to parents and try to meet them halfway by getting involved when we can and offering our own ideas if we don't like the ideas the school is trying. At least they are trying.