to think being certified off work sick doesn't mean you can't leave the house

[Swansandducks]

A colleague has been out of work on a cert for the past two weeks. Someone saw her yesterday apparently collecting her niece from a ballet class and is now going around saying our colleague is 'throwing a sickie'.

AIBU to find this annoying? The woman in question has had a very bad chest infection and is due back in work on Monday. Surely it is normal that on the last few days of her illness she is capable of going out and about for an hour or two a day, which is very different to facing a long commute and a full day at work?

Dorsetdays- I work for a HR & Employment Law Solicitors. That’s what they advise their Clients - not to take back any employee signed off until a Dr signs them back on as it can invalidate their liability insurance.

YNBU. I was off sick once with anxiety and depression. Going out was part of the recovery process. Not eveyone at my work place would have known the details of my illness and if they'd bumped into me i might have looked fine. It was between me, my line manager and the HR department. Doctors don't sign people off sick for nothing. Would your colleague prefer that the whole office got infected?

Surely the issue is what you leave the house for? You need to eat so going for food shopping is reasonable. Spending time walking as part of getting better from some illnesses, seems OK. It is people going to events with physical exertion and some social events, depending on the illness, that is at least undiplomatic.

In the period of time I managed staff, there were doctors who were more willing to sign people off work than others. My view is that the people probably most guilty of being 'skivers' (to use an old term) were those who would have three days off for something when they could be back at work in a day or two, and those who could struggle in but don't.

Tofty. Then your employer is giving out inaccurate advice! There is no issue at all with regards to employers liability insurance if an employee returns to work before the end of their fit note (or even if they choose to ignore it completely and remain in work which they could also do).

The NHS actively encourage this if you read their website (as does the HSE and the .gov website) because people recover at different rates and someone may well feel better before the end of the fit note. It has also been proven by plenty of studies, incl the NHS and RCS that returning to work as quickly as possible or remaining in work is often much better for an individuals recovery than staying off for a longer period.

It’s also much harder to return to work the longer someone is off so, circumstances allowing, the sooner the employee and the employer can work together to facilitate a return to work the better for everyone.

MN is a different world

I'd complain about a colleague doing something dangerous or illegal, breaking important company rules or dumping their work on me.

However, I would never assume that seeing someone who is off sick, out and about, doing normal activities for an hour,
means they are capable of working 8 hour days, especially if they have a commute.

I'd expect they chose the slot in their day and maybe the particular day that week, when they felt strongest and then rested.

Also, a colleague could be well enough to go food shopping, even have a haircut, on automatic pilot,
but still be unable to function intellectually at a level to handle complex science usefully at my place of work.

It would also be frowned on if someone came in obviously incapable of functioning properly, especially if they were likely to be infectious.
They would be sent straight home, as would anyone - however well - who came in while signed off sick. Our HR says that can leave the company liable and won't even consider it

I had a pretty severe back problem recently, and ended up quitting a new lovely job because I couldn't cope with 8 hours a day at a PC - note the employer DID have the right chairs etc but I felt the pain many days meant I wasn't able to concentrate on my work. On a good day I could still get out & about a bit, and would sometimes supermarket shop/go to the pharmacy/visit a local relative etc. But any of these outings would leave me in a LOT of pain for a couple of days after. As each case needed to be done in a certain time after it come in, I couldn't do part of a case one day, a bit more a few days later then finish it the following week; and you couldn't really help out on each others cases either.

Now I've been sorted and dying to get back to work - but my job there has now been filled so back on the job hunt (sigh).

Tofty - that is completely inaccurate advice ! If an employer refuses to allow an employee back to work it becomes medical suspension (full pay). Doctors also never sign People 'back to work'.

I was signed off for 6 months with stress and anxiety. I wanted to resign but the occupational health said the GP had said I wasn’t fit to make that choice. The gp suggested that I went out, exercises, shopped, lunches etc rather than stay cooped up. I was off due to workplace bullying so did go out in the week but was petrified of bumping into the bully on a weekend so stayed in then. I didn’t post it all of FB though - although it was early FB days back then anyway. Eventually when I was signed fit to work I was allowed to put my resignation in with immediate effect. What I did find was that staying in too much and getting dvds to watch all day was really not good for my mental health and could have spiralled downwards if I’d stayed off sick any longer.

Tofty - that is completely inaccurate advice ! If an employer refuses to allow an employee back to work it becomes medical suspension (full pay).

But this is a pretty extreme case. The conversation Toftys is talking about goes something as below 99% of the time without any need for 'medical suspension':

Conversation 1:
Employee: 'I feel better and have two days left on my fit note'
Employer: 'Great news, we'll see you on Monday then as planned'
Employee: 'I could come back tomorrow'
Employer: 'You're signed off, we'd rather you took the extra 2 days and come back then
Employee: Okey dokey, see you Monday then.

Conversation 2:
Employee: I feel better and have 2 weeks left as unfit to work on my fit note
Employer: Fabulous news. Can you call your doctor and check that they are happy for you to return full time, or whether they recommend any adjustments.

Employee: Yes will do.

Employers under health and safety law have responsibility for their staff wellbeing. So if someone turned up when signed off as unfit to work by fitnote they would need to be very careful in ensuring they were ready to come back. It's not about technicalities of being signed off or on.

Of course being signed off sick doesn’t mean you’re gouse bound.

Obviously she’s been signed off by her GP and is not just calling in herself ill and then swanning around

Well I have been off since the first week of term as I had an accident in school time.
I am going away today but will be back in work on Monday as that is when my 3rd fit note runs out. I am having a phased return as such (in that I won't be teaching but I will be in work).
I have been out and about but not under my own steam as I can't drive yet.
I couldn't care less who saw me or what hey said as I would just give them a gob full as it were.

Teatea. Absolutely, but equally the conversation could also be quite different as that person has clearly said they’re well enough to return to work so why would an employer say no thanks to that?

Most organisations don’t have the luxury of turning down someone’s offer to return to work for those 2 days (you’re assuming they don’t work weekends in which case it could have been 4 or 5 days work) if they’re genuinely well enough to return.

Alternatively the employer could offer some phased work for those days which means they get some additional hours they weren’t expecting and the employee gets a slightly phased return which is win-win.

The employer actually has to be more careful about NOT allowing a return to work than enabling one as that could be discriminatory and penalise the employee (financially depending on sick pay allowances or through having a higher sickness level record than they would otherwise for example).

So, if you are a single parent who cannot get help from family then your kid can't be picked up from school and you can't buy food in the local shop etc. whilst off sick - erm, of course you can